Current Affairs Culture wars & The rise of grifting

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"We" haven't reformed it, a very small set of politicians (the same ones you profess to despise) have.

I mean look at the BBC - gone from a public service broadcaster that generated much of its own content (and very well too) which had its own culture, values and independence to (via a load of reforms) something stuffed with political appointees. Something which is cowed into going along with whatever the government of the day wants and which has to prostrate itself every time the licence fee comes up again.

You can say much the same thing about the Army (cut to ribbons in each successive review), the Navy (ditto), the NHS (in receipt of ever greater funding solely to prop up the financial scams imposed on it), the Police (cut and politicized), the Judiciary, tertiary education (student debt), constitutional norms and traditions and especially Parliament. "The Establishment" has been fairly consistently attacked (rather than "reformed") for the past forty plus years.



So why then do you want them to get away with it? If you want to scare corrupt people, look at what they are afraid of, what they've tried to destroy here and then restore (or improve) that.

Where have I said they should get away with it? What on earth are you talking about?

And now you're arguing semantics. You know exactly what I meant regarding reform. If you can't talk in good faith then why bother?

 

[tsubaki]

Where have I said they should get away with it? What on earth are you talking about?

And now you're arguing semantics. You know exactly what I meant regarding reform. If you can't talk in good faith then why bother?

Tearing the institution up rather than those have wrecked it is letting them get away with it. If someone started to burn your house down, would you set the rest on fire to teach them a lesson?

 

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T

Tearing the institution up rather than those have wrecked it is letting them get away with it. If someone started to burn your house down, would you set the rest on fire to teach them a lesson?

Terrible analogy. You are still insisting on this false equivalence that you've made up. There are no barriers to prosecuting bad people when dismantling a failed institution.

Predators put themselves in places where they can gain access to their victims. It is precisely because the institutions are flawed that allows predators to flourish.

 

[tsubaki]

Terrible analogy. You are still insisting on this false equivalence that you've made up. There are no barriers to prosecuting bad people when dismantling a failed institution.

Predators put themselves in places where they can gain access to their victims. It is precisely because the institutions are flawed that allows predators to flourish.

So why not prosecute them to begin with? You appear to be more concerned about dismantling "failed institutions" than you are about dealing with wrongdoing. Of course that is often the case with homogenous dissidence, and it shouldn't be a surprise given where a lot of that comes from.

 

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So why not prosecute them to begin with? You appear to be more concerned about dismantling "failed institutions" than you are about dealing with wrongdoing. Of course that is often the case with homogenous dissidence, and it shouldn't be a surprise given where a lot of that comes from.

Because this is a thread about culture and not crime and punishment. So my posts are ON TOPIC. Prosecuting wrong doers is a given. There is no argument, there never was an argument. YOU created an argument about it because you disagree with my points about institutions and persist with your pseudo intellectual catchphrase.

Your argument that I am somehow in favour of dismantling the BBC over prosecuting nonces is false at best and an attempt to smear me at worst.

 

[tsubaki]

Because this is a thread about culture and not crime and punishment. So my posts are ON TOPIC. Prosecuting wrong doers is a given. There is no argument, there never was an argument. YOU created an argument about it because you disagree with my points about institutions and persist with your pseudo intellectual catchphrase.

so why did you argue against my point that prosecuting wrongdoers should be the focus, rather than destroying "failed institutions"?

 

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so why did you argue against my point that prosecuting wrongdoers should be the focus, rather than destroying "failed institutions"?

At no point have I argued that.

 

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Enjoy your echo chamber lads.

 

[tsubaki]

At no point have I argued that.

its literally here - https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/...-rise-of-grifting.114179/page-31#post-9616510

 

[Goat]

Enjoy your echo chamber lads.

Dont forget to call us Sheeple.

 

[Amw79]

Dissident isn't really the correct word because you wouldn't really be challenging the government in any way but it's not really appropriate to call it apathy because that implies you don't care.

I guess it means I've lost all faith in the "establishment", our government and the institutions. I think they all stink to high heaven and I don't believe voting red or blue or any other colour tie is going to change anything.

I don't know why this has fired so many people up. I don't know why it has encouraged people to be rude but it's clear to me, at least, that refusing to pick a side and have my cords pulled obviously rubs people up the wrong way.

This type of position is a lazy one to hold, and worse than that it’s just clearly wrong.

Look at the imminent Supreme Court ruling in Roe Vs Wade, and then try to argue that it doesn’t matter who’s been in power and had control of the Supreme Court Appointments.

Whatever your opinion on Roe V Wade, it’s undeniably a pretty significant ruling which will have huge effects on society.

The whole “they’re all the same” argument, or arguing that because neither political party will address the specific thing that you want addressing, then they are both as ineffectual as each other, is a obviously flawed position.

 

[Walken]

This type of position is a lazy one to hold, and worse than that it’s just clearly wrong.

Look at the imminent Supreme Court ruling in Roe Vs Wade, and then try to argue that it doesn’t matter who’s been in power and had control of the Supreme Court Appointments.

Whatever your opinion on Roe V Wade, it’s undeniably a pretty significant ruling which will have huge effects on society.

The whole “they’re all the same” argument, or arguing that because neither political party will address the specific thing that you want addressing, then they are both as ineffectual as each other, is a obviously flawed position.

Lazy is the correct word, a default 'they are all the same' argument is about absolving responsibility to one's self

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

This type of position is a lazy one to hold, and worse than that it’s just clearly wrong.

Look at the imminent Supreme Court ruling in Roe Vs Wade, and then try to argue that it doesn’t matter who’s been in power and had control of the Supreme Court Appointments.

Whatever your opinion on Roe V Wade, it’s undeniably a pretty significant ruling which will have huge effects on society.

The whole “they’re all the same” argument, or arguing that because neither political party will address the specific thing that you want addressing, then they are both as ineffectual as each other, is a obviously flawed position.

This point has been the basis for all Republican talking points, more or less, since the beginning of the Reagan Administration.

Since then it's been about "the government is terrible to begin with, so it doesn't matter who you vote for they are all corrupt, so you might as well vote for the guy that makes you feel better about yourself"

And for the most past they've succeeded in getting large swaths of society to believe that

 

[wm02]

This point has been the basis for all Republican talking points, more or less, since the beginning of the Reagan Administration.

Since then it's been about "the government is terrible to begin with, so it doesn't matter who you vote for they are all corrupt, so you might as well vote for the guy that makes you feel better about yourself"

And for the most past they've succeeded in getting large swaths of society to believe that

Not discounting any of your points, but as someone who has recently shifted from the private sector to federal contracting, it’s been shocking to see the standards in the particular government agency I work with.

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

Not discounting any of your points, but as someone who has recently shifted from the private sector to federal contracting, it’s been shocking to see the standards in the particular government agency I work with.

The federal government is a bureaucratic behemoth. It's not perfect, far from it.

My problem is the self-fulfilling arguments that there's nothing that can be done about it, so just vote for people who certainly don't want to do anything to improve anything at all