Cuba Discussion [Moved from Donovan Thread]

[SoCalMike]

The Hispanic population is S. Fla is largely Cuban by far. They don't care a bit for futbol.

As a Cuban-American, I'll vouch for that (I'm the exception ) However, the U.S. / Cuba WC qualifier from Havana was well attended, my cousin from Havana went so far as to take a picture of himself holding up an American flag that they borrowed from someone in the U.S. delegation and emailing it over. Simply by sending that picture he literally risked a visit from the commie police there, or may have jeopardized his job in Cuba, but he so wanted to show that he is an American supporter (as well over half the people in Cuba are, they just can't outwardly state it). His sport though is beisbol, although he does follow the Spanish La Liga, his team is Barca.

Miami isn't the best of sports towns, heck the whole south-east U.S. aren't known to be with the exception of the college-towns...

 

[chicoazul]

As a Cuban-American, I'll vouch for that (I'm the exception ) However, the U.S. / Cuba WC qualifier from Havana was well attended, my cousin from Havana went so far as to take a picture of himself holding up an American flag that they borrowed from someone in the U.S. delegation and emailing it over. Simply by sending that picture he literally risked a visit from the commie police there, or may have jeopardized his job in Cuba, but he so wanted to show that he is an American supporter (as well over half the people in Cuba are, they just can't outwardly state it). His sport though is beisbol, although he does follow the Spanish La Liga, his team is Barca.

Miami isn't the best of sports towns, heck the whole south-east U.S. aren't known to be with the exception of the college-towns...

This is not true.

 

[SoCalMike]

This is not true.

chicoazul, what part isn't true? That over half of all Cubans despise the Castro regime? I would say that it's about right, it's about that many. There is a paranoia there over stating even the most benign sentiments against the government.

I have about 20 members of my family still in Cuba (my parents left in 1959 because they had already lived in Miami prior to then and had a visa). My parents and sister all were born in Cuba. My parents and son have visited a couple years ago, I refuse to go while Castro remains in power. My mother and I regularly write to them, they have email but no internet access. My mother just called there a few days back to see how her brother was doing, the only thing he does when he gets on the phone is curse the government and they take the phone away from him because they don't want to risk getting in trouble from the government eavesdroppers.

I really don't know why you are saying that half the people in Cuba dislike the government. Yes, there are a lot that have been 'indoctrinated' - especially the younger generation that has been raised on the communist propaganda taught in schools, but most of the older generation that saw Cuba pre-revolution and those sick of receiving food rations and going hungry for the last half-century.

Are you saying that more or less people dislike the government? Not sure what you mean.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

My experience in Cuba is very different to yours SoCalMike.

 

[chicoazul]

chicoazul, what part isn't true? That over half of all Cubans despise the Castro regime? I would say that it's about right, it's about that many. There is a paranoia there over stating even the most benign sentiments against the government.

I have about 20 members of my family still in Cuba (my parents left in 1959 because they had already lived in Miami prior to then and had a visa). My parents and sister all were born in Cuba. My parents and son have visited a couple years ago, I refuse to go while Castro remains in power. My mother and I regularly write to them, they have email but no internet access. My mother just called there a few days back to see how her brother was doing, the only thing he does when he gets on the phone is curse the government and they take the phone away from him because they don't want to risk getting in trouble from the government eavesdroppers.

I really don't know why you are saying that half the people in Cuba dislike the government. Yes, there are a lot that have been 'indoctrinated' - especially the younger generation that has been raised on the communist propaganda taught in schools, but most of the older generation that saw Cuba pre-revolution and those sick of receiving food rations and going hungry for the last half-century.

Are you saying that more or less people dislike the government? Not sure what you mean.

Have you lived there mate? I know that many can't talk but I wouldn't even say a tenth disliked Castro.

They don't go hungry either mate, have free education to University level, extensive access to free healthcare and so little crime it's untrue.

Your view is distorted because of your heritage which is understandable but a lot of the Cuban Americans are disliked in Cuba, more so than Castro.

 

[SoCalMike]

there is a difference between not liking your regime and being an American supporter, though.

I would agree with your comment about the former.

Not sure as to how many Cubans support the U.S., but I will say a good many do. My cousin though was very enthusiastically in his pic while holding up an American flag. Again, a lot of Cubans felt like they were another American state pre-revolution, the relationship was great. Havana was Las Vegas before that ever existed, the place for movie stars to go during the post WWII era. It was only after the revolution in Cuba cut off access to Havana and the many nightclubs that Las Vegas started becoming something.

Of course, many Cubans will root for their country, but a great many do support the U.S. like my cousin.

 

[chicoazul]

Not sure as to how many Cubans support the U.S., but I will say a good many do. My cousin though was very enthusiastically in his pic while holding up an American flag. Again, a lot of Cubans felt like they were another American state pre-revolution, the relationship was great. Havana was Las Vegas before that ever existed, the place for movie stars to go during the post WWII era. It was only after the revolution in Cuba cut off access to Havana and the many nightclubs that Las Vegas started becoming something.

Of course, many Cubans will root for their country, but a great many do support the U.S. like my cousin.

You're joking me? The corruption of the Batista regime, being ultimately an American puppet government, led to the success of the Cuban Revolution.

It might have been great times for the Americans, and rich Cubans but for the general Cuban population there were some hard times.

 

[SoCalMike]

You're joking me? The corruption of the Batista regime, being ultimately an American puppet government, led to the success of the Cuban Revolution.

It might have been great times for the Americans, and rich Cubans but for the general Cuban population there were some hard times.

Yes, there was corruption under Batista, however it was never this bad. Castro used the dissatisfaction amongst the poor Cubans to rise to power. By the way, Castro was never a 'socialist' he simply took up that philosophy because it eased his way into becoming a dictator. He probably would have been more right-leaning if the U.S. had accepted him, the more that he was rebuffed and scorned by Kennedy, the further left his view went. He found allegiance with an eager Soviet Union that was looking for an ally only 90 miles from U.S. soil during the peak of cold war tensions.

There is such repression there currently, such fear that people don't say anything even remotely derogatory against the government while in public. It literally permeates through society, who by the way aren't even allowed to have access to a great many things that a tourist can enjoy. My parents wanted to stay at a hotel during their stay in Veradero Beach, they wouldn't allow their Cuban relatives to stay in a room so they ended up renting someone house for the night.

Batista was corrupt however the people were free, and the country as a whole was prospering (although Batista didn't address the poor as he should have). Cuba at that time was amongst the strongest of the spanish-speaking South/Central American and Caribbean countries. Now they are amongst the very poorest.

 

[chicoazul]

Yes, there was corruption under Batista, however it was never this bad. Castro used the dissatisfaction amongst the poor Cubans to rise to power. By the way, Castro was never a 'socialist' he simply took up that philosophy because it eased his way into becoming a dictator. He probably would have been more right-leaning if the U.S. had accepted him, the more that he was rebuffed and scorned by Kennedy, the further left his view went. He found allegiance with an eager Soviet Union that was looking for an ally only 90 miles from U.S. soil during the peak of cold war tensions.

You're one of the few people that bring this up, fair play and who knows but I think that the US President of the time effectively snubbing him when he went over probably didn't help. Reap what you sow and all that.

There is such repression there currently, such fear that people don't say anything even remotely derogatory against the government while in public. It literally permeates through society, who by the way aren't even allowed to have access to a great many things that a tourist can enjoy. My parents wanted to stay at a hotel during their stay in Veradero Beach, they wouldn't allow their Cuban relatives to stay in a room so they ended up renting someone house for the night.

That was the case, that Cubans weren't allowed to stay in hotels prior to two years ago. That's now changed. But it's the way it was, the hotels were for the tourism.

Batista was corrupt however the people were free, and the country as a whole was prospering (although Batista didn't address the poor as he should have). Cuba at that time was amongst the strongest of the spanish-speaking South/Central American and Caribbean countries. Now they are amongst the very poorest.

It depends how you determine wealth, by money? Tut tut, you dirty capitalist pigdog. I determine it by the quality of life and the general happiness of the public there. Like I mentioned above, healthcare, education and very low crime rate help considerably. The people are generally happy, of course you could always be happier and the recession is affecting the country as anywhere but people are generally happy. Who wouldn't be, it's a beautiful country. The one grumble you do hear is about the restriction on travel but on the whole they don't have it too bad.

It's all comparative, take Haiti, Jamaica and Mexico as it's direct neighbours. I could argue that your average Cuban has a better standard of life than all of them.

 

[sotnas]

It's that comunist trauma thing, Chico.

They don't even know what is all about but it's the Spooky Man.

 

[chicoazul]

It's that comunist trauma thing, Chico.

They don't even what is all about but it's the Spooky Man.

The Americans are as petrified of it as what the Cubans are of the Americans.

Shame really, they're both wonderful countries with wonderful people but politics gets in the way.

 

[chicoazul]

How again are South Florida, Cuba, and the best fan experiences in MLS related to Donovan at Everton?

It's what we do here, it's gone massive off topic and politico.

 

[sotnas]

The Americans are as petrified of it as what the Cubans are of the Americans.

Shame really, they're both wonderful countries with wonderful people but politics gets in the way.

It really is.

People tend to single out what is more convenient for their point of view.

I've never been to Cuba, but friends of mine who have been there years ago, tell me that what the population misses is the western consumer goods. They don't lack food, neither health care or education.

Maybe freedom, but not the basics.

Did you know that a lot portuguese people goes to Cuba to have surgery?

 

[chicoazul]

It really is.

People tend to single out what is more convenient for their point of view.

I've never been to Cuba, but friends of mine who have been there years ago, tell me that what the population misses is the western consumer goods. They don't lack food, neither health care or education.

Maybe freedom, but not the basics.

Did you know that a lot portuguese people goes to Cuba to have surgery?

I didn't know that.

The westernisation process, if you can call it that, started when Cuba opened it's doors to tourism post Special Period, when the Soviets couldn't subsidise it.

It's only human nature that the masses of tourism with prized designer clothing and gadgets would be lusted after by the Cubans, there's a thriving black market there now for this sort of thing.

 

[sotnas]

I didn't know that.

The westernisation process, if you can call it that, started when Cuba opened it's doors to tourism post Special Period, when the Soviets couldn't subsidise it.

It's only human nature that the masses of tourism with prized designer clothing and gadgets would be lusted after by the Cubans, there's a thriving black market there now for this sort of thing.

Their public health care system is far more efficient than the portuguese... Well, I dare to say that their public health care system is far more efficient than the american one...ooops.:stick: