Cricket

[PhilM]

India only have kholi really. Their steamers have bowled well tbf, but if kholi isn't at the crease they've had no partnerships all series. Bar pujara with the tail yesterday.

I understand @tsubaki's point and they are much better on their own wickets, however it's worrying if they're the best team as I don't rate them much at all.

Furthermore, they've made a questionable England look good, so perhaps it's more the state of test cricket cricket as a whole that concerns me.

 

[toffeejack]

I understand @tsubaki's point and they are much better on their own wickets, however it's worrying if they're the best team as I don't rate them much at all.

Furthermore, they've made a questionable England look good, so perhaps it's more the state of test cricket cricket as a whole that concerns me.

Yeah, if England had a top order they'd blow the whole world away. I don't get how putting ali/bairstow/stokes up the order makes any difference because they all come in the time a number four comes in anyway.

Can never complain about the bowlers though.

 

[tsubaki]

I understand @tsubaki's point and they are much better on their own wickets, however it's worrying if they're the best team as I don't rate them much at all.

Furthermore, they've made a questionable England look good, so perhaps it's more the state of test cricket cricket as a whole that concerns me.

Test Cricket is fine; in fact the rise of the IPL has had the effect of making almost every side that comes to England - bar Pakistan - have very little experience of the moving ball.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

Tbf, even without hindsight, anything around 200 always looked a very stiff target to chase on this wicket.

I know at times it looked on (largely thanks to a spectacularly dreadful piece of umpiring incompetence from third umpire and regular clown Joel Wilson - really for all his undoubted ability and brilliance Kohli has had a huge amount of luck in this series too) but it was always hard to be too pessimistic today about England's chances with so much help in the wicket, so many right handers in India's lineup, and the ideal man in Moeen to exploit it in ours.

Before this series, England had won seven of the last nine home tests against India which for me always meant a home victory was far more likely in this series, and a comfortable one fairly likely too (at least in the series result if not the manner). It's now 10 from the last 13.

Can we win it 4-1? Tbf it's largely academic but we have a habit of losing meaningless final tests having already wrapped up the series, it has relatively recently meant the presentations after a successful home Ashes or the first series away win in South Africa since 2005, have come against a backdrop of a meaningless defeat and disappointment.

Series presentations should be after the winning test not after the one that noone cares about and can easily be lost.

Just when will the administrators fix this?

At least we shouldn't be getting too many posts tonight from the bad news merchants and gloomsters delighting in another collapse, non declaration or defeat

 

[rochdaleblue]

Both attacks have exploited the conditions really well and the frailties of the opposition’s top orders. Heaven help us if we have similar conditions when the Aussies next visit. I’d hate to see the turmoil Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins would cause in addition to a world class spinner in Lyon.
As for this series. It has been evenly contested and as both top orders have been exposed, it has been the strength of England’s middle and late order all rounders that have proved the difference. Kohli and Curren the stand out players on either side.

 

[summerisle]

Both attacks have exploited the conditions really well and the frailties of the opposition’s top orders. Heaven help us if we have similar conditions when the Aussies next visit. I’d hate to see the turmoil Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins would cause in addition to a world class spinner in Lyon.
As for this series. It has been evenly contested and as both top orders have been exposed, it has been the strength of England’s middle and late order all rounders that have proved the difference. Kohli and Curren the stand out players on either side.

Lyon has taken 25 wickets in eight matches in England, with an average of over 30. Wouldn't personally class him as world class.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

Both attacks have exploited the conditions really well and the frailties of the opposition’s top orders. Heaven help us if we have similar conditions when the Aussies next visit. I’d hate to see the turmoil Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins would cause in addition to a world class spinner in Lyon.
As for this series. It has been evenly contested and as both top orders have been exposed, it has been the strength of England’s middle and late order all rounders that have proved the difference. Kohli and Curren the stand out players on either side.

Really?

It's a very very long time since Australia last won a series in England and this at a time when home sides are invariably dominating.

Infact going all the way back to 2001, which will be 18 years ago by the time we play again next year, in which time England have won the last four home test series, very often straight after having been whitewashed or very badly beaten in the previous one in Australia, although we did actually win a series over there in the last ten years.

England's swing bowlers and duke balls on greener pitches suit seam rather than pace and spin and I expect next year to be the same, England to win as usual.

(this summer has been exceptionally warm but it's unusual and really should have suited India who seem to always lose away from the subcontinent)

India are number one but largely helped by the fact that more than any other nation they play a much higher percentage of their total tests either at home or in spin friendly conditions.

They've recently toured South Africa and now England, losing 5 of the last 7 tests but will still be number one as they'll probably now play a huge number at home. The rankings don't reflect whether a test is at home or away and are pretty arbitrary as a result.

These days in test series between major nations, the home side nearly always wins (or always when India travel), unless they're a ridiculously short two test series, which arent a series at all and really shouldn't count.

 

[toffeejack]

Tbf, even without hindsight, anything around 200 always looked a very stiff target to chase on this wicket.

I know at times it looked on (largely thanks to a spectacularly dreadful piece of umpiring incompetence from third umpire and regular clown Joel Wilson - really for all his undoubted ability and brilliance Kohli has had a huge amount of luck in this series too) but it was always hard to be too pessimistic today about England's chances with so much help in the wicket, so many right handers in India's lineup, and the ideal man in Moeen to exploit it in ours.

Before this series, England had won seven of the last nine home tests against India which for me always meant a home victory was far more likely in this series, and a comfortable one fairly likely too (at least in the series result if not the manner). It's now 10 from the last 13.

Can we win it 4-1? Tbf it's largely academic but we have a habit of losing meaningless final tests having already wrapped up the series, it has relatively recently meant the presentations after a successful home Ashes or the first series away win in South Africa since 2005, have come against a backdrop of a meaningless defeat and disappointment.

Series presentations should be after the winning test not after the one that noone cares about and can easily be lost.

Just when will the administrators fix this?

At least we shouldn't be getting too many posts tonight from the bad news merchants and gloomsters delighting in another collapse, non declaration or defeat

Tbf, if two players at close to player of the series and then in the last game one gets a pair whilst the other gets a match winning century, they may make the wrong player of the series judgement before the last match

 

[Connor]

 

[Chris O'Connor]

Tbf, if two players at close to player of the series and then in the last game one gets a pair whilst the other gets a match winning century, they may make the wrong player of the series judgement before the last match

I meant award the trophy after the winning test, not the individual awards.

How many times have England won a really great series and got the trophy against a backdrop of disappointment and defeat?

Think Australia, quite a few times or our recent first series win in South Africa since 2005, great series wins ruined by a stupid procedural rule which meant the trophy presentation being awarded after the last meaningless test.

Teams who have already won the big one, won the big series can lose a little of that mental edge and come off the boil a little, the will to win isn't quite as strong when it means nothing, they're only human and it happens to other teams too.

They should give it to the victorious team when they're victorious not risking giving it to them when they're down and defeated

Its senseless to do so

 

[Chris O'Connor]

The correct decision for me, it had been coming. It's far better getting out while still at the top and recognising it's just getting harder, to leave before the calls in the media and elsewhere become too deafening, just seems right. To have just been dropped or rather ignominiously left out would have left a nasty taste in the mouth. He deserved to choose his own time to go.

A wonderful cricketer and run getter who led England by example both as an opener and captain, one of the finest openers, certainly as far as run getting goes, to wear an England shirt

What a servant he's been.

- Most tests played for England
- Most tests played in a row
- Most runs scored
- Most centuries scored
- Most runs scored as captain
- Most tests as captain

I hope he goes out with a bang at The Oval, he deserves a standing ovation.

I'm glad this test match can be all about him, now the series has been won.

One of the all time greats

 

[Eggs]

..big game for Lancashire starting tomorrow against Somerset. Indeed, big round of fixtures.

 

[Connor]

The correct decision for me, it had been coming. It's far better getting out while still at the top and recognising it's just getting harder, to leave before the calls in the media and elsewhere become too deafening, just seems right. To have just been dropped or rather ignominiously left out would have left a nasty taste in the mouth. He deserved to choose his own time to go.

A wonderful cricketer and run getter who led England by example both as an opener and captain, one of the finest openers, certainly as far as run getting goes, to wear an England shirt

What a servant he's been.

- Most tests played for England
- Most tests played in a row
- Most runs scored
- Most centuries scored
- Most runs scored as captain
- Most tests as captain

I hope he goes out with a bang at The Oval, he deserves a standing ovation.

I'm glad this test match can be all about him, now the series has been won.

One of the all time greats

Watching his powers slowly fail him over the past few years has certainly been quite tough.

Loved the man for his Ashes performance down under to get us a win over there but since then he’s rarely hit those heights.

Agree that he should have gone when he chose to and before it all got a bit too much - the calls for his dropping or being left out unceremoniously at some point in the future - on a big time scale wouldn’t have been right, despite how much we’ve all wanted him to go.

It opens up a role for someone to finally grab that openining partnership with two hands and make it their own for a while because that spot has been freed.

Whether or not anyone will is yet to be seen but we now can’t complain about them being stopped by Cook being there.

 

[AndyC]

A terrific batsman, fine slip fielder, intelligent captain and a thoroughly nice person, it would be a fitting end to his international career if he could go out in style with a big century and/or more in the Oval test to take him past Sangakkara

 

[mawders]

The correct decision for me, it had been coming. It's far better getting out while still at the top and recognising it's just getting harder, to leave before the calls in the media and elsewhere become too deafening, just seems right. To have just been dropped or rather ignominiously left out would have left a nasty taste in the mouth. He deserved to choose his own time to go.

A wonderful cricketer and run getter who led England by example both as an opener and captain, one of the finest openers, certainly as far as run getting goes, to wear an England shirt

What a servant he's been.

- Most tests played for England
- Most tests played in a row
- Most runs scored
- Most centuries scored
- Most runs scored as captain
- Most tests as captain

I hope he goes out with a bang at The Oval, he deserves a standing ovation.

I'm glad this test match can be all about him, now the series has been won.

One of the all time greats

Probably a year later than it should have happened, but what a career. Amazing to think what the figures could have been if he'd hadn't had those period stretches of low scores during his captaincy. He's the last true test batsman we have - hopefully he gets a place on the coaching set up to teach the current crop what test mentality is like