Could this be 94/95 the sequel?

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What happened in 2013/14 is totally irrelevant now. It's gone.

Last season was atrocious, to finish 11th with that squad is unacceptable.

If we discount 2013/14 we've got to discount last season as well. We had no right to finish anywhere that wasn't merited last season regardless of squad quality, nobody does.

The last one was a poor season, this is a new season and we're one game in unbeaten after a good second half of football in our first game. Somehow you've managed to translate that into us struggling at the bottom of the league in Novemeber under a manager who was out of his depth and after getting promoted beyond his capabilities. There's no comparison between 94/95 to where we are now, none what so ever.
 
Sequels that take place over 20 years after the original are almost always awful.

We have a FAR better squad than in 95 with potentially top class players in almost every position already. We are just missing a link between center mid and strikers. There is no way we are in a relegation battle this season if we can bring in that one necessary player and avoid any more bad luck on injuries.
 

Sequels that take place over 20 years after the original are almost always awful.

We have a FAR better squad than in 95 with potentially top class players in almost every position already. We are just missing a link between center mid and strikers. There is no way we are in a relegation battle this season if we can bring in that one necessary player and avoid any more bad luck on injuries.
At the moment those if's seem a lot to ask mate.
 
I was thinking this the other day. There are certainly similarities between Martinez and Walker. I think we need a bit of the 95 spirit though. McCarthy, Besic etc snapping into people.

Walker did bring in some quality players (Parkinson, Limpar and I liked Amokachi too), he was just too weak and the players never seemed to have any real passion or spark. I think we are certainly missing that spirit and aggression currently so I can see that similarity. I think Martinez viewing everything as phenomenal is not good, even if it is just for the cameras. At first it gives you a lift, but eventually you need to have a balanced view, this is what the fans feed off. The atmosphere at the ground is flat at the moment :(
 
2 years ago we were an unknown entity with a new manager with fresh ideas working with an inherited squad. We had our best league season since we last won the league, breaking all kinds of records including beating Utd home and away and finished with a points tally that would more often than not have seen us finish in the top 4, possibly even top 3.

But we finished 5th.

That's how difficult it is to break into the top 4. To do it, we need a combination of luck, more record breaking and consistency very difficult to achieve with a relatively small squad due to financial constraints.

We need more than a competent manager.

All true but look at that season you mentioned. We threw away the first three games (like we are now) because we hadn't sorted out transfers. Then the wheels came off at the end of the season as shown at the Palace home game. It was also a season when the point scoring was extremely high in the prem so perhaps our performance relatively wasn't as good as it looked even if it was a record.

I maintain the position of Everton has to be unless we get further investment as part of the group of nearest challengers to the top 4. For a while this meant best of the rest and the glass ceiling looked impenetrable. That has changed now and you have Spurs and Liverpool on the outside looking in. Considering that before last season we had finished ahead of both of those sides 2 out of 3 seasons then we should absolutely be in that group challenging. That way if, like last season, someone like United are having a poor season, you can be in place to strike. Being 11th not even in the conversation is not acceptable. Fine, maybe a good manager (like Moyes was) would have us in the top 6 of this league, 7th at the very worst absolutely no problem. 30 mill striker up front 3/4 of England's defence, midfield prodigies and genuine class attackers like Mirallas, this team should be nowhere near 11th. Martinez like the board is managing a decline in expectations. Remember when Moyes got lambasted for even suggesting 7th was a decent performance? Now half the fan base would love the much derided 7th place trophy. We should be aiming higher. A good manager would have us top 6 last season. A very good manager would have had us top 4.
 
All true but look at that season you mentioned. We threw away the first three games (like we are now) because we hadn't sorted out transfers. Then the wheels came off at the end of the season as shown at the Palace home game. It was also a season when the point scoring was extremely high in the prem so perhaps our performance relatively wasn't as good as it looked even if it was a record.

I maintain the position of Everton has to be unless we get further investment as part of the group of nearest challengers to the top 4. For a while this meant best of the rest and the glass ceiling looked impenetrable. That has changed now and you have Spurs and Liverpool on the outside looking in. Considering that before last season we had finished ahead of both of those sides 2 out of 3 seasons then we should absolutely be in that group challenging. That way if, like last season, someone like United are having a poor season, you can be in place to strike. Being 11th not even in the conversation is not acceptable. Fine, maybe a good manager (like Moyes was) would have us in the top 6 of this league, 7th at the very worst absolutely no problem. 30 mill striker up front 3/4 of England's defence, midfield prodigies and genuine class attackers like Mirallas, this team should be nowhere near 11th. Martinez like the board is managing a decline in expectations. Remember when Moyes got lambasted for even suggesting 7th was a decent performance? Now half the fan base would love the much derided 7th place trophy. We should be aiming higher. A good manager would have us top 6 last season. A very good manager would have had us top 4.

The transfer issue is a result of the transfer window. Someone said yesterday, if we bid for someone in July, the agent/advisor or whatever would say "let's wait and see if we can get a better offer elsewhere before we sign". As the window draws to a close, the majority of moves start going through as players settle for what they perceive to be their best offer. As a result, the significant number of signings will be made after the season has started and will stay that way unless the window dates change.

I don't think anyone would disagree that an 11th place finish is unacceptable, I certainly don't. But I also think 'do we give our manager time/money to overhaul the squad into what he wants, which will take a number of windows as we can't afford to spend £50+ million during a summer, or do we replace him with a new manager who will also want time/money to overhaul the squad into what they want'.

And lets not forget, we've played one game out of 38 and we have been told that the manager wants more signings brought in. It's too early to write off this season yet.
 
All true but look at that season you mentioned. We threw away the first three games (like we are now) because we hadn't sorted out transfers. Then the wheels came off at the end of the season as shown at the Palace home game. It was also a season when the point scoring was extremely high in the prem so perhaps our performance relatively wasn't as good as it looked even if it was a record.

I maintain the position of Everton has to be unless we get further investment as part of the group of nearest challengers to the top 4. For a while this meant best of the rest and the glass ceiling looked impenetrable. That has changed now and you have Spurs and Liverpool on the outside looking in. Considering that before last season we had finished ahead of both of those sides 2 out of 3 seasons then we should absolutely be in that group challenging. That way if, like last season, someone like United are having a poor season, you can be in place to strike. Being 11th not even in the conversation is not acceptable. Fine, maybe a good manager (like Moyes was) would have us in the top 6 of this league, 7th at the very worst absolutely no problem. 30 mill striker up front 3/4 of England's defence, midfield prodigies and genuine class attackers like Mirallas, this team should be nowhere near 11th. Martinez like the board is managing a decline in expectations. Remember when Moyes got lambasted for even suggesting 7th was a decent performance? Now half the fan base would love the much derided 7th place trophy. We should be aiming higher. A good manager would have us top 6 last season. A very good manager would have had us top 4.
We can't come close anymore simply because of the money that a coming into the league and even so called lesser teams can outspend us and more importantly increase their wage bills, ill comfortably say top 4 will never happen for us within the next decade unless we are bought out.

And it's quite naive of you to believe we should be competing with the likes of spurs and Liverpool from now on, they're starting to open a gap and pull away from us
 

While I agree that our current manager is clearly an absolute spoon, I think it's pushing it to suggest another manager we could realistically get in would have us pushing the top 4. A better suggestion would be that any competent manager would have this squad comfortably top 8 and putting away poor teams like Watford and Sunderland at home, as well as playing half decent football and we wouldn't have to suffer Howard, Barry or Naismith
 
We can't come close anymore simply because of the money that a coming into the league and even so called lesser teams can outspend us and more importantly increase their wage bills, ill comfortably say top 4 will never happen for us within the next decade unless we are bought out.

And it's quite naive of you to believe we should be competing with the likes of spurs and Liverpool from now on, they're starting to open a gap and pull away from us

What because of one season? The season before we finished comfortably ahead of Spurs. How are they pulling ahead of us? Liverpool were always ahead of using the prem but in Moyes' last 2 years we finished ahead of them. Suarez inspired them the year after but I believe Everton under a good manager would have finished ahead of them last year. They finished 6th, hardly unknown territory for Everton. Both sides have more money but I don't see it as impossible for us to target being in the same group as them. Martinez has just made what used to look like a decent possibility an absolute pipe dream. We'd be challenging both this season with a better manager.
 
What because of one season? The season before we finished comfortably ahead of Spurs. How are they pulling ahead of us? Liverpool were always ahead of using the prem but in Moyes' last 2 years we finished ahead of them. Suarez inspired them the year after but I believe Everton under a good manager would have finished ahead of them last year. They finished 6th, hardly unknown territory for Everton. Both sides have more money but I don't see it as impossible for us to target being in the same group as them. Martinez has just made what used to look like a decent possibility an absolute pipe dream. We'd be challenging both this season with a better manager.
A lot has changed from even as little as 2 years ago, both have stadiums work underway, look at their recent commercial deals, thyre millenniums ahead of ours, they can blow us away transfer fees and wages. Nothing to do with on the pitch though that needs improvement, off field where it matters they're pulling away from us at speed
 

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