Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Barnfred 55]

Is Putin gonna save us all then?

He might do in a roundabout way.

It wouldn't surprise me if this were the Oxford University vaccine that they have stolen, and are putting into immediate use rather than go through the final testing stage.

So if it works on the Russian people, who will effectively become guinea pigs, then hopefully it will encourage more people to take it once it get's the go ahead here.

 

[Blues Harp]

Technically you are correct in what you say mate. But your argument also has flaws. Firstly, given the nature of this virus, it is hard to disassociate covid from the cause of death. We now know it attacks many of our vital organs, causes blood clots, and forces our immune system into overdrive. So many people may not actually be dying of covid itself, but it would be extremely hard to prove that covid was not a significant contributing factor. It is therefore justifiable to include them in our death figures.

Your argument is only really applicable with accidental deaths, most of which occur on our roads and in the workplace, both of which have been much reduced during the lockdown. But even based on the average accidental deaths of 7000 in the UK each year, given that we estimate only 5% of the population have had covid, then no more than 350 of those would have had covid. Realistically, that figure will actually be less than a 100. Hardly worth a mention in the whole scheme of things.

You also have to factor in that over 90% of the excess deaths this year came during 4 week period when the virus was at it's peak. You can't put that down to coincidence.


Sorry mate that's not fair really. This government have done many things wrong during this pandemic, but covering up the number of deaths is not one of them.

The official covid death figure is around 52/53k (the latest ONS figures up to 31 July plus those who have died since). Excess deaths is roughly £10k more, and that needs explaining. Given most of these occurred during the peak of the virus it's fair to assume that a lot of them can be put down to covid. I'm sure this can be partly explained by older people dying of dementia in homes and the community without showing symptoms and not being tested. But a lot of these deaths can also be put down to other causes as sick people stayed away from hospitals and health centres, either because they were scared or didn't want to bother our already overworked medical staff.

Bottom line though is that the UK are not trying to mislead the population over the number of covid deaths. I'm sure many other countries are though.

Given that this government have blatantly lied about so many issues (not just about the virus) why should I believe that they have had no "input" into manipulating the death stats? Why are you so sure "many other countries are though?"

 

[Blues Harp]

Serco and Sitel to get more public money despite track-and-trace fiasco

A third of the workforce are to lose their jobs and fewer than half of contacts reached, but outsourcing giants will have contracts renewed.

www.opendemocracy.net

 

[summerisle]

 

[Kenshin]

The ability of people to be able to ignore stuff which is plain as day never ceases to amaze me.

View attachment 97362

Tens of thousands of excess deaths have fook all to do with COVID ?
If you truly believe that then Darwin must be scratching his head in his grave.

What does that prove?

That's the data that has been suspended because of an urgent enquiry because the numbers are suggested to have been exaggerated?

I still don't get this , just throw numbers at someone and ignore the rest of the post like it doesn't matter lol

That is the data, that's what your man was saying isn't entirely accurate.

It's becoming quite clear that the numbers have been grossly exagerated and the reasons why that is so as well. People can't keep denying it with more and more evidence pointing it out.

It may mean nothing and the number is still tens of thousands large sure , but they aren't accurate.

 

[orly]

The ability of people to be able to ignore stuff which is plain as day never ceases to amaze me.

View attachment 97362

Tens of thousands of excess deaths have fook all to do with COVID ?
If you truly believe that then Darwin must be scratching his head in his grave.

ITK

 

[Catfish Blues]

What does that prove?

It proves that, at it's peak, deaths were running at twice the normal rate, at a level not seen since the ONS began to record data in it's current form ( early 90's from memory ).

That is the data, that's what your man was saying isn't entirely accurate.

Given Tramps said he thought deaths were a tenth of what's been stated, that's not my definition of "entirely accurate" , so that statement is clearly utter bollocks, unless you think it's a coincidence that record numbers of people died at the same time that a pandemic was wandering round the country ?

It may mean nothing and the number is still tens of thousands large sure , but they aren't accurate.

You're partly right, they aren't 100% accurate, and that's for two reasons.

Firstly, early on in the pandemic, doctors appeared not to be recognising COVID as a cause of death, so there was a gap of thousands of excess deaths over and above those recorded as COVID. No-one can ever know for certain, but it's highly likely that the vast majority of those deaths were COVID related.

Secondly, the ONS numbers will be the most accurate figures, so they show that recent COVID deaths, as per recorded on the death certificates, are less than the headline figures from the DoH, and that's because the latter include anyone who has ever tested positive, but doctors aren't recording a lot of those on death certificates because they don't consider it relevant.

So, early doors, the ONS figures underestimated COVID deaths by thousands and then, as time went on, the ONS figures will still be pretty damned accurate, but the DoH figures start to become overestimates.

Overall though, the ONS numbers are the ones which matter, but they don't need to scrap the DoH figures, they just need to measure them consistently across the UK.

If you think about it, and I know very few people do, the 28 day rule that Scotland, Wales and NI apply, although it seems a bit arbitrary, is pretty sensible. It will occassionally include someone knocked over by a bus, but it'll also occassionally exclude someone discharged from hospital who died of a heart attack brought on by COVID complications. Overall, they'll probably balance out.

 

[navidson]

Reading the news tonight makes me think we're never going to see the end of this thing

 

[Goat]

Reading the news tonight makes me think we're never going to see the end of this thing

We will, 1 day, we are learning more and more each day.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not Even Herd Immunity Can Fully Protect Us

If some areas get immunity against Covid-19 sooner than expected, the world still faces huge challenges.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Incidentally, I was reading some research this morning highlighting the lack of diversity in clinical trials in the US, despite the clear evidence that minority groups are most affected by the virus. Hopefully that's not the case with the trials being done here.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Given that this government have blatantly lied about so many issues (not just about the virus) why should I believe that they have had no "input" into manipulating the death stats? Why are you so sure "many other countries are though?"

Would not even bother getting into a debate with Tories they will purposely confuse COVID deaths as they do with all numbered measures by churing out various methods . This pandemic and it's deaths is of no bearing, they will happily dance and play round with the memories of dead it is of no moral consequence.

 

[Amw79]

Given the government’s strategy was prioritising the economy, rather than acting quickly to lockdown and save lives, the fact that we now have the biggest economic downturn in Europe as well as the highest number of excess deaths - it’s pretty clear we have the worst possible people in charge at the worst possible time.

 

[OGG]

Given the government’s strategy was prioritising the economy, rather than acting quickly to lockdown and save lives, the fact that we now have the biggest economic downturn in Europe as well as the highest number of excess deaths - it’s pretty clear we have the worst possible people in charge at the worst possible time.

Act too slowly as we did and not only do you have many, many more deaths, you also screw the economy for longer. The facts are bearing out what was common sense 5 months ago.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If it's in any way indicative, Czech have had relatively high case numbers for a little while now, but they don't appear to be growing. Outbreaks appear to be limited to isolated cases (a mine, a health centre, a nightclub etc.) rather than among the wider population. I'd imagine that makes it easier to contain via local measures.