Colin Powell backs Barack Obama!

[gordonjblair]

Just taking a step back and trying to be objective for a second..... and I had to have a little giggle.

You see, it's ALWAYS and WITHOUT FAIL the 'other lot' who have the worst record for dirty tricks.

There are nutjobs and [Poor language removed] stirrers on both sides, and undoubtedly in equal measures, because they were brought through the same political system.

The appointment of Palin as running mate whatever her experience and qualifications for the job, while it may have briefly appeared as a shrewd move at the time, has had at least as much influence in Obama's favour as the 2 candidates' perceived responses to the economic situation.

Whether she's more or less experienced than Obama, whether or not she could point to the foreign country of your choice on a map (best of three), the impression the general public (and more importantly, the floating voters) have is that she's a potential liability, and so she's turned into an electoral liability. ( I still would, though .... I'd feel dirty afterwards, but so would she )

 

[Nebbiolo]

I blame Coyney

COYNEY OUT

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Oh absolutely.

Christians are being accused of being extremists and intolerant on a regular basis. That's been going on for years.

But lets be very clear Atrottel. When you use the word "extremist," it's certainly not the right wing spewing extremist views. Unless of course you believe that Pro Life and anti Illegal Immigration are extreme views. Or how about a reduction in gov't spending and less government vs. more government. Extreme? That's predominately standard operating procedure of those on the left side of the aisle in this country.

Tell you what. One of the blogs I read regularly is called Right Wing News. I know, shocking.

Occasionally, the guy who runs the blog will go on to Kos or DU and pull comments that are made by their posters and put them on his board for all to see.

Now I understand that a select group of comments don't represent everyone on the site but something about group think comes to mind. Funny as he's able to do this on a fairly regular basis. What I'm saying is that it's not a one-off.

If you and the other libs on there aren't already regular members of sites like those, then you might not know what I'm talking about. Next time he does it, I'll link it so that you can see what I'm talking about.

Extreme indeed.

I trhink it's quite extreme to say homosexual marriage and illegal immigration are immoral. But that's just my point of view. Thing is it's all subjective in the end. everyone believes their own 'moral/political' stance to be the correct one and anything that goes to the other side of the scale (left or right) is extemist. I'm no different to you in that respect. I do recognise the political spectrum and realise I fall under the category of 'Left wing'. As such don't see anyone in the American Democratic party who I consider 'far left'.

 

[TX Tiburon]

In the cool still of the Texan nights, when the breezes from the Gulf waft slowly over the bodies of your loved ones, do you ever wake and think that maybe it's you who are the extremist, TXBill?

Nahh, thought not...

It seems that the extremist claim is all too frequently spouted now days. It's used by each end of the political spectrum in their attempts to minimize or dismiss the the opposing view. Sadly, it is so much easier to paint with a broad, labeling brush than to hold rational discourse and debate. Abraham Lincoln once said, "I don't like that man very much. I must get to know him better." Our representatives don't want to honestly consider an alternative perspective anymore. They merely want to discredit the "other side".

Hacks me off that both parties are so politically entrenched in the placks of their platforms that their candidates are robotic in the positions that they support. Where are the politicians that represent the will of their constiuents? Whose first and last inclination is to do what is right for America as a whole whether than what is expedient for currying favor and sustaining electability?

 

[TX Tiburon]

TX is a good person and has the sense to accept that others differ from him on politics, mate. He isn't an extremist by any stretch of the imagination. It's just that those Texan boys like to shoot from the hip.

Yep. We do. And we are a different breed politically (although the state is changing). We don't put our trust in government or expect it to solve our individual problems.

 

[Blue Ray]

I blame Coyney

COYNEY OUT

Yeah I'd go along with that. Coyney out of Sayers

 

[Rook]

I'm a Dem and think that Obama can be a good president but this endorsement does nothing for me. Before the Iraq war, Powell had his chance to tell the world the truth of what would really happen and that the evidence of WMDs was total bunk. He was perhaps the only person in the country who had the trust of almost all of the American people and he used that trust to s#$% on his own country and feed us lies. Now he tries to blame Cheney and the Bushies for lying to him when he knew they were feeding him BS. He knew what was going to happen, he knew there wasn't any WMDs and refused to speak up. And instead of leveling with the American people he caved in like a coward.

I love it how he says "oh we should have never gone in. I knew this was a bad idea, I never recommended going in and all this other crap" Wonderful, bravo, Colin. Though some of us would have liked to know how you really felt beforehand.

Now over 4000 are dead and over 20K are injured, and you could make the arguement that some of their blood is on Powell's hands as well.

 

[TX Tiburon]

The whole thing has been a sham to be honest. McCain started off as someone quite happy to stick to his principles and go against the party line but the longer the election has gone on the more right he's moved. It's probably cost him the election as any hope he had of attracting floating voters vanished when he chose the pitbull as his running mate.

Obama doesn't strike me as anyone with any more moral fortitude as he's veered from far left rhetoric in the party primaries to a slightly more centre ground in the election itself. And as for the amount of money both men, but particularly Obama, have blown during this campaign it is frankly obscene in a time when both are preaching about the need for prudence.

The debates did little to endear me to the process either with both sides hell bent on petty point scoring rather than any time of intellectual debate. For the worlds greatest democracy it's been a very poor showing.

Really like your post Bruce. Very thoughtful.

McCain. Not a full-fledged conservative or Republican. A Democrat light.
Obama. Seems to me a to be product of the party. No real experience but the beneficiary of the cult of personality. As the US goes, he truly has one of the most left voting records.

What a waste of money.

Your last paragraph. Dead on. A product of our media culture. What is said today is aired today and mostly forgotten tomorrow. Sound bites must be provocative/controversial/catchy in order to grab the attention of a culture that has mass attention-deficit disorder. Grab our attention quickly or we will be onto the next reality tv show.

 

[TX Tiburon]

McCain has run a stinker of a campaign though, I'm sure even you have to admit that Bill. I'm amazed that he hasn't at least mentioned the fact that if Obama wins then the Democrats will control both houses, which generally isn't very good for the democratic process, especially when Obama pretty much always follows the party line with his voting record.

With Obama being the man he is he must have known that it wasn't the social conservatives that he had to convince to vote Republican in order to win, but the floating voters that McCain appealed to before this campaign started. Instead he seems to have moved away from the turf he so often occupied before the election campaign.

I don't really get the hero worship that follows Obama around. He's an excellent orator but that surely isn't enough for such devotion by so many? It does seem likely, bar some miraculous cock up on his part, that he will win the election and it will be nice for America to take a better lead in world affairs than she has done under Bush. I get very nervous about his economic plans however and detest the way he ran out the rhetoric so easily when fighting Hilary, only to back track towards the centre in the main election. Style over substance is an easy accusation to throw at the man, especially in this soundbite driven age. I guess only time will tell if the mud sticks.

Yep. McCain has run a poor campaign. The only time that McCain was really moving was during the primaries. I attribute this to the (queue the conspiracy theory music) liberal media promoting him as their candidate-of-choice in the republican field. It was an effort to ensure that a democrat or psuedo-democrat be in the white house.

I disagree with you that Palin was a poor choice. And I would submit that Biden much worse of a choice for Obama. What does he really bring to the table for Obama. Years of experience in the US Senate? Yawn. They govern worse than the House. Joe can't even go a week without saying something that, if he were Republican, would receive hours of critical scrutiny on the national news shows.

Hero worship of Obama. The cult of personality.

Obama must have a cock up to lose. I go back and forth on that. One day, I feel he has the election locked up. But we learned in the last election that polling is no science. Also, there is an effect that has occurred in recent elections involving a candidate of color where.... the candidate of color (representative X) leads in the polls up to the brink of the election but loses the actual vote. The theory is that when people are asked could they, did they, or will they vote for representative X, they answer to the affirmative. Presumably, this is to avoid the perception of racism. This effect has been observed a few elections of note although I can't seem to bring any to mind at this hour. The percentage bias of the pre-election polls vs real vote has been, in some cases in the high single digets. Say it exists in this election to the tune of 5-7%. Obama's current lead is 5% or less.

I wish I really did know that Obama had it locked up. Because I have been itching to cast my protest vote for the Libertarian candidate Bob Barr. But as of now, I shall be cancelling ToffiestillIdie's vote. Well, not really since he is not in the Texas electoral college but you get the point.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Yep. We do. And we are a different breed politically (although the state is changing). We don't put our trust in government or expect it to solve our individual problems.

That's quite a statement. As far as I am aware, Texas is populated by all types of individuals. Some must want government to be pro-active and expect it to solve their problems when it is possible for it to do so. And we can't have a system that governs individuals in two separate manners. That is, we can't expect to opt out or opt in, as the case might be.

Usually, I think when people make claims like you have made, they tend to mean that they don't want government interfering when they feel that they are the loser in specific transactions, such as paying tax. But many of these people are happy for government to stick its nose in when it does something they approve of, such as offering protection or a stable environment in which to go about their daily affairs.

We can't have it both ways. We can certainly have government with a less hands-on approach, but we will always need some form of it. So really, and ideally, you should want to trust your government. If you don't, you've clearly got a rubbish political system, or you're paranoid or confused about something?

The joys of political philosophy.

 

[gordonjblair]

I disagree with you that Palin was a poor choice. And I would submit that Biden much worse of a choice for Obama. What does he really bring to the table for Obama. Years of experience in the US Senate? Yawn.

There's a reason why Biden was a better choice than Palin.

People will vote for who they want as POTUS, not for who they want as a vice. However, they want some comfort in the knowledge that, if the candidate of choice meets with an unfortunate accident, the vice will be a 'safe pair of hands' - nothing exciting, or earth shattering, just steady and reliable.... boring, if you like. That's what Biden is, and Palin is not.

That is why Biden was a better choice than Palin. Nobody would be overly worried or concerned if he had to step in... they certainly wouldn't be inspired, but they wouldn't be worried.

For all the hope and change and brand new dawn's etc etc.. what people really like is a good, strong, reliable, safety net. The Dem ticket ticks the boxes.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

In the interests of objectivity I don't think Biden is any good either. After all, any man that thinks it is a good idea to copy Neil Kinnock lock, stock clearly has a few screws loose.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I wish I really did know that Obama had it locked up. Because I have been itching to cast my protest vote for the Libertarian candidate Bob Barr. But as of now, I shall be cancelling ToffiestillIdie's vote. Well, not really since he is not in the Texas electoral college but you get the point.

It's interesting how one of the few to have spoken any sense during the credit crunch has been Ron Paul. I must admit to getting quite excited with all the great press he was getting on the web in the lead up to the primaries. Of course the mainstream press then proceeded to ignore him for the entire election :huh:

 

[Nebbiolo]

In the interests of objectivity I don't think Biden is any good either. After all, any man that thinks it is a good idea to copy Neil Kinnock lock, stock clearly has a few screws loose.

lol

 

[trebilcock66]

I've only just picked this profound and challenging thread today so have not read every single contribution.

Question I wanted to ask of anyone who has followed American politics in recent years is: If (as I understand Justin Webbs article), Palin is perceived by some voters as a liability because she's not experienced and is unworldly, how did American voters come to back Dubya - twice. I know they've fallen out of love with him now but they were sure convinced only four years ago. If Palin's a risk now - how different was Bush back then. Didn't know the names of world leaders etc - similar to Sarah Palin's level of knowledge.

I seem to remember on the night of Bush's first victory, Cher (that well known politics expert) asking "Has everyone gone ****ing crazy?"

What - if anything - has changed?