Central Midfield

[BlueToff]

In a central midfield two? I doubt it. He was anonymous in a midfield three against the crappest team in the league.

He was anonymous as a No.10, I agree, in the first-half, when we lined up in a 'traditional' 4-2-3-1.

We switched to a 4-3-3 at HT, with Barkley dropping into the left of the midfield three.

As Swansea were sat so deep, it allowed Ross that bit more room to manoeuvre and get about.

We really could do with a switch in systems. The 4-2-3-1 stopped becoming effective for us some time ago.

 

[degsy]

He was anonymous as a No.10, I agree, in the first-half, when we lined up in a 'traditional' 4-2-3-1.

We switched to a 4-3-3 at HT, with Barkley dropping into the left of the midfield three.

As Swansea were sat so deep, it allowed Ross that bit more room to manoeuvre and get about.

We really could do with a switch in systems. The 4-2-3-1 stopped becoming effective for us some time ago.

said this yesterday - we need a MF and some MF Players to play in it...proper players, not Sq. peg wingers in round hole MF spots

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

We should sign Reuben Loftus-Cheek

Gana and The Sandwich in midfield would conquer the universe

 

[WA Toffee]

Do you think we need 2 DMs against the likes of Swansea and Sunderland at home? Let's say we sign a player who turns out to be a top #10. What do you do with Ross? Ship him out? Play him wide?

Surely you can still play them both, but 10-15 yards further forward? Encourage the defence to push up and play the game in their half. Of course you do need a central defender with some pace to thwart the counter attack, but I think a lot of people get too hung up with what the formation is without looking at how fluid those formations can be

 

[Macca99]

you mean after he fluked a formation in Jan last season after going on a 10 game run without a win?

When did this happen? I've just looked and I see they changed to a 3-5-2 in december and thrashed Arsenal two games later. I can't see a 10 game streak without a win either. Also does that make any change of formation a fluke?

 

[beachy]

Surely you can still play them both, but 10-15 yards further forward? Encourage the defence to push up and play the game in their half. Of course you do need a central defender with some pace to thwart the counter attack, but I think a lot of people get too hung up with what the formation is without looking at how fluid those formations can be

4-1-4-1.

Gana holding ... with Ross and this new Cahill/Lampard type player further forward.

 

[BlueToff]

said this yesterday - we need a MF and some MF Players to play in it...proper players, not Sq. peg wingers in round hole MF spots

I'm not even sure it's square pegs round holes anymore Degs.

Gueye is a central midfielder. As is McCarthy.

The issue is Gueye was doing everything that McCarthy could offer and more on Saturday, so without Barry in there we lack anybody who is willing to get their foot on the ball and make things happen from deep (even if that is just setting the tempo of our play).

Can Barkley do that?

I'm not so sure. But, a switch in formation (for certain games) allows him that extra bit of space and gives us the insurance either way.

And of course a central midfielder who can actually get on the ball and make things tick alongside Gueye is needed asap.

 

[Carlito]

There's no such thing a centre midfielder anymore.

Now it's all about striking the balance between yard dogs that just run into people as often as possible before getting booked, and seven goal a-season strikers that can't get a game up front.

 

[degsy]

I'm not even sure it's square pegs round holes anymore Degs.

Gueye is a central midfielder. As is McCarthy.

The issue is Gueye was doing everything that McCarthy could offer and more on Saturday, so without Barry in there we lack anybody who is willing to get their foot on the ball and make things happen from deep (even if that is just setting the tempo of our play).

Can Barkley do that?

I'm not so sure. But, a switch in formation (for certain games) allows him that extra bit of space and gives us the insurance either way.

And of course a central midfielder who can actually get on the ball and make things tick alongside Gueye is needed asap.

Is Koeman just another hanger on to the 'pressing/Intensity' bandwagon - like Martinez was on the 'possession' one...bearing in mind that if you jump on a bandwagon (as it passes) that it's already too late - you should be driving it.

Maybe what we really need is a total re-think with an aim to find a way to counter the pressing game, like the pressing game countered the possession method

Not forgetting that a team of really good players aka, real contenders, can do both, plus other stuff as and when required

The key ingredient to being a good coach is 'Better Players'

 

[WA Toffee]

4-1-4-1.

Gana holding ... with Ross and this new Cahill/Lampard type player further forward.

Whatever you call it, all formations are pretty much the same. 334 when attacking, 811 when defending. It's the tactics and players that make the difference, not the name of the "formation"

 

[BlueToff]

Is Koeman just another hanger on to the 'pressing/Intensity' bandwagon - like Martinez was on the 'possession' one...bearing in mind that if you jump on a bandwagon (as it passes) that it's already too late - you should be driving it.

Maybe what we really need is a total re-think with an aim to find a way to counter the pressing game, like the pressing game countered the possession method

Not forgetting that a team of really good players aka, real contenders, can do both, plus other stuff as and when required

The key ingredient to being a good coach is 'Better Players'

I don't think so mate.

He came to the Prem two years ago now, and during that time there were still plenty of teams based around possession (us, the RS, Spurs (though they were getting away from that as Poch implemented his game plan), City, Utd etc.)

Koeman built on what Poch had set out and added a bit more solidity to it, so while he's in no way a pioneer he always looked to counter possession-based football with quick incisive play, while enjoying enough of the ball at the same time.

So yeh, maybe now is the time to look at how teams counter 'the press', and go in that direction. But nobody really has ever found a way to counter it. Every team gets success from it, when it's done correctly.

So yeh, we definitely need better players who are more adaptable.

My point for a few weeks now has been that we have a squad full of average to good players who are only able to play one way. That way doesn't work and hasn't for a year now.

It needs a shake up, and that is Koeman's job.

However, that being said, he wasn't ever just going to come in and overhaul the squad straight away without fully assessing it first.

In the meantime, the players need a huge kick up the arse and, to an extent, Koeman does as well to ensure that he changes things and this slump is arrested.

 

[degsy]

I don't think so mate.

He came to the Prem two years ago now, and during that time there were still plenty of teams based around possession (us, the RS, Spurs (though they were getting away from that as Poch implemented his game plan), City, Utd etc.)

Koeman built on what Poch had set out and added a bit more solidity to it, so while he's in no way a pioneer he always looked to counter possession-based football with quick incisive play, while enjoying enough of the ball at the same time.

So yeh, maybe now is the time to look at how teams counter 'the press', and go in that direction. But nobody really has ever found a way to counter it. Every team gets success from it, when it's done correctly.

So yeh, we definitely need better players who are more adaptable.

My point for a few weeks now has been that we have a squad full of average to good players who are only able to play one way. That way doesn't work and hasn't for a year now.

It needs a shake up, and that is Koeman's job.

However, that being said, he wasn't ever just going to come in and overhaul the squad straight away without fully assessing it first.

In the meantime, the players need a huge kick up the arse and, to an extent, Koeman does as well to ensure that he changes things and this slump is arrested.

Yep; the key is better players - counters any system.

 

[Toffeelover]

Voted for Gana and Barry, but was nearly putting my tick on the Barkley option for his attacking flair.

Jst have to say, Ron please do not play Clevers or McC again. Wonder what state Besic will be in when he is fit?

 

[Kaiser Soysauce]

4-1-4-1.

Gana holding ... with Ross and this new Cahill/Lampard type player further forward.

Or actual Cahill / Lampard knowing us....

 

[PickeringBlue]

I'd like to see Ross given more of a chance beside Gana. I don't really rate him as a number 10 and he really tends to go missing. There was one game last season when Martinez started him further back and he made a few good forward passes and was more involved in the game (perhaps playing deeper would stop him from going missing in games, something I find he does quiet a bit).

With Gana's stamina and ability to read the game, I think we could afford the luxury of having someone more attack minded in the mid-field.