2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[gwladysnight]

Davide Ancelotti became a fitness coach at PSG at the age of 23. I wonder how that happened.

He then became a fitness Coach at Madrid.

After that he became the youngest ever assistant manager at Bayern

Followed by becoming the youngest ever assistant manager at Napoli

He is now the youngest assistant manager in the Premier League.

There are two connections, first regards nepotism, the second regards all the above teams being panned for their fitness levels.

 

[catcherintherye]

So pep guardiola looks to a David unsworth clone as a mentor and pioneering coach? Really?

I highly doubt it. But who Pep does or doesn't look up to is irrelevant, unless we are judging him as a mentor. We are not, hes employed as a football manager. List me the trophies hes won in the top 5 leagues. That's what he is judged on, not what opinions contemporaries have of him.

 

[Egil Olsen]

I'm sorry mate, but Bielsa and Ancelotti are not comparable for how they are viewed. Look at their respective CVs. There is a reason one has won trophies in all 5 of the main leagues, including the highest honour multiple times, and one hasnt really won anything of note.

It's perfectly fine to think Bielsa would be a better coach, but their respective standings and achievements are worlds apart. Bielsa is closer to David Unsworth than Carlo Ancelotti in terms of prestige.

Here you are simply wrong. If you study football, or are going to become a coach at a high level, then Bielsa is an important part of the curriculum. But from the outside, of course, Ancelotti is more successful, but his ideas have had less to say for the football game than Bielsa.

 

[dave n]

I mean we have made a lot of sales too. Not a big fan of net spend, unless you sell a key player, which we have done on 3 or 4 occasions in that time to being money back in.

The main issue though, is we spend about 430m of that and were sat in 18th place last season. That's the reality.

Since then Carlo has brought in 4 players, spent a out 65m and taken us to the top half. In his first full season, it would be a good start if we were in the top 8.

We cant change the waste of money that went before

We were a top 10 team minimum when he took over. Top 8??? So yet another crap and wasted season with no progress.

 

[catcherintherye]

Here you are simply wrong. If you study football, or are going to become a coach at a high level, then Bielsa is an important part of the curriculum. But from the outside, of course, Ancelotti is more successful, but his ideas have had less to say for the football game than Bielsa.

Ok. So for beginners, yes Bielsa has a clear and identifiable style. There is a lot more to management than that though.

I suppose by opinions in football, I'm talking about people who matter, in top clubs board rooms. Ancelotti is viewed on a other level to Bielsa.

 

[miami]

I highly doubt it. But who Pep does or doesn't look up to is irrelevant, unless we are judging him as a mentor. We are not, hes employed as a football manager. List me the trophies hes won in the top 5 leagues. That's what he is judged on, not what opinions contemporaries have of him.

I'll judge Carlo on what he achieves with us, not on what he has achieved at other clubs. He has a great cv. He must have something about him. His reputation will help bring players in, that's undoubtedly a big plus for us. Id like to see us play with a noticeable identity seeing he's been here nearly a year now. I don't see it tbh. I'm for giving him time and Windows but, as I've already said, I'm underwhelmed.

 

[catcherintherye]

We were a top 10 team minimum when he took over. Top 8??? So yet another crap and wasted season with no progress.

Well what are you basing that on? We were 18th in the table nearly half way through.

 

[Sheedy's right knee.]

I think we will over perform I think we’ll be somewhere between 6-8th. I can see us being streaky this season. Some want to write the season off already though. We’re in the quarter finals of the league cup, favourable draw in the FA cup 3rd round, and we’re mid table. Nothing is written off yet.

I agree there has been some good and bad this season. From the start not since the losing streak. I think Carlo had to throw caution to the wind a little and integrate some of the younger players on to the bench. The likes of Nkounkou Braithwaite and Gordon have the hunger and we know about the failings of some of the established players. Then we the fans have to be patient. Allow a bad game a mistake and see if they can grow.

 

[miami]

Ok. So for beginners, yes Bielsa has a clear and identifiable style. There is a lot more to management than that though.

I suppose by opinions in football, I'm talking about people who matter, in top clubs board rooms. Ancelotti is viewed on a other level to Bielsa.

and we have all seen over the years, especially at Everton, the boardrooms are full of people with an encyclopedic knowledge of football......

 

[gwladysnight]

Here you are simply wrong. If you study football, or are going to become a coach at a high level, then Bielsa is an important part of the curriculum. But from the outside, of course, Ancelotti is more successful, but his ideas have had less to say for the football game than Bielsa.

Bielsa is renowned as one of the most innovative coaches ever. A groundbreaking coach who rewrote the coaching manuals and re-invented the 4-3-3.

Carlo has always been renowned as a figurehead, as a great man manager and someone players love to play for. If you were to look at him tactically then you would say he was a disciple of Sacchi.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'll judge Carlo on what he achieves with us, not on what he has achieved at other clubs. He has a great cv. He must have something about him. His reputation will help bring players in, that's undoubtedly a big plus for us. Id like to see us play with a noticeable identity seeing he's been here nearly a year now. I don't see it tbh. I'm for giving him time and Windows but, as I've already said, I'm underwhelmed.

You can obviously judge Ancelotti on what you wish, and in honesty I agree with you. We are bothered about Everton.

However if we are being objective, which is what the discussion was about, his record and reputation is far beyond what Bielsas would ever be.

That might be wrong, or inflated, or unfair or whatever. He might not live up to his rep. Bielsa could have over performed his rep here. These are all valid opinions.

However what's an undeniable fact, is across his career, Ancelotti is levels above Bielsa in terms of achievements.

 

[Leylo]

I mean we have made a lot of sales too. Not a big fan of net spend, unless you sell a key player, which we have done on 3 or 4 occasions in that time to being money back in.

The main issue though, is we spend about 430m of that and were sat in 18th place last season. That's the reality.

Since then Carlo has brought in 4 players, spent a out 65m and taken us to the top half. In his first full season, it would be a good start if we were in the top 8.

We cant change the waste of money that went before

Got to agree before he took over apart from the Duncan stint,we were all saying defo relegation candidates at the time ,I know we've spent alot of dough but not down to this manager. This is gonna take alot of time this mess and alot are talking about not making Europe not going down ye get me!

 

[Sheedy's right knee.]

I have to admit after the last game of last season I thought we maybe relegation candidates, but the signings have improved us no doubt. I’m not to the level our fan base is expecting right now. On our day we can compete with anyone in the league in my opinion and it’s still early days.

 

[catcherintherye]

and we have all seen over the years, especially at Everton, the boardrooms are full of people with an encyclopedic knowledge of football......

I'm not saying they are. But they are likely to be the best judges of performance arent they? They have people paid millions of pounds to make such decisions, who are far more qualified than you or I.

 

[Egil Olsen]

It's a very thoughtful post.

My initial take though, is that where is Wilder now? Managing a team to the worst start in PL history having spent quite a bit of cash. So perhaps that's why Ancelotti takes a different tact.

On the lucky tact, why would very competent football people keep giving him a job if he added no value? Weve seen plenty of managers go to teams, and struggle. Look at Koeman at Barca now as an example. To consistently win trophies in top countries in not as easy as it looks. I'm not sure luck alone can explain it.

I do agree with 60 points being a target. I think that would be a good return. So far we are roughly on course for that as well.

Wilder was just an example because it was a good quote. But no matter what happens to Sheffield United, he has performed better with the team than anyone could expect. The quote covers the attitude of most coaches I would assume. Guerdiola has said the same, and many other coaches.

Well, often there are not very competent people who hire coaches, and a lot goes through agents and contacts. The same goes for players. I'm not saying he's a bad coach, and you have to have certain characteristics to coach the world's best team. You have to have the players' respect, something that Ancelotti has. But you do not have to be a great tactician or innovator.

Again, Ancelotti is a good coach, but he has always performed as expected. Some data models indicate that he is the coach who has underperformed most of all coaches in big clubs in the last 20 years - in terms of resources. I do not know the reliability of these models, but it is also something that is talked about in the football world. He also won the league only once with AC Milan, which in itself is an achievement when you look at that team.

Koeman came in at an unfavorable time, and is sitting on borrowed time anyway. Xavi will take over the team after the presidential election.