Can anyone explain this Everton phenomenon?

[Dushku]

I agree whole heartedly with the 'expectation' angle that is thrust upon Moyes, by not only us but by the media.At the beginning of each and every season, Moyes is put under such pressure that he has to buckle and say stuff like 'This is the best squad I've ever worked with.. this is our season to break the Top Four Club " etc..if he didn't, we'd be howling for his head.

Could you imagine a General about to take his troops into war and just shrug his shoulders when asked how he thinks we're gonna fair ? " Meh, they've got better troops,tactics and have ya seen the size of that gun they've got..I dunno why we' even bother turning up, to be honest". We'd of lost a lot of major battles as nation over the years with that attitude!! I'm not saying that Moyes is a blind optimist or even that Everton's foils are a fools dream - we just always need that 'push' to kick start our hearts at the start of every campaign.

But to address the current form of our team. We ARE Everton, we can play Chelsea off the park like we did last season with Landon Donovan in our ranks or we could capitulate against West Brom at home with out him this season.. does this mean that Landon Donovan is the missing factor? Or was it just one of 'those days at the office' - we're every little thing goes wrong and Murphy's Law reigns supreme?

Billy , as an example, looks laboured and lost - but his two most effective moments of late have come down the middle of the park - something, we on here and the Russian national side have known for months now. Yet, Moyes plays him out wide.

Jags, if there was ever a finer example of an old fashioned centre half - A Put your foot through it at every opportunity and just clear it merchant, then it's him - no grace, no style . Just hoof it as far up the field as far as you can , regardless of there being a blue shirt within twenty yards of it. But he does it well, he's more Tony Adams than Carlos Pouyal. Without the DUI. Yet he's now an England regular and he makes us all proud to be blue.

The team needs balancing out and if it means dropping the odd big time Charlie then so be it, if it means the likes of Landon Donovan coming in to fill that still vacant right side - then so be it.But it needs tweaking and this summer is going to be very interesting when certain money laden wolves come a calling.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Not what I said at all. He has good games and bad games. Overall I view Moyes as one of the best. 7th with less than nil cash. Good going in my book.

Theoretical question : if Moyes managed to get the best squad in the world for no money, then was unable to get that best squad in the world above 7th place would you credit him for his work in the transfer market or criticise him for his work on the pitch?

Or a bit of both which i suspect would be the sensible option.

Yeah he's probably the best we are gonna get but that doesn't mean while we can have huge respect for the job he does well we can't criticse for obvious and frustrating things he continually does wrong.

Smart money says next season he again has a squad capable of beating the best teams in the country yet is unable to get the best out of them on a regualr basis.

We're better than we should be but not as good as we could be.

 

[RFUS]

Theoretical question : if Moyes managed to get the best squad in the world for no money, then was unable to get that best squad in the world above 7th place would you credit him for his work in the transfer market or criticise him for his work on the pitch?

Or a bit of both which i suspect would be the sensible option.

Yeah he's probably the best we are gonna get but that doesn't mean while we can have huge respect for the job he does well we can't criticse for obvious and frustrating things he continually does wrong.

Smart money says next season he again has a squad capable of beating the best teams in the country yet is unable to get the best out of them on a regualr basis.

We're better than we should be but not as good as we could be.

Well said.

Financially Moyes is -- £ for £ -- unrivalled. Possibly in world football, not just English football.

But that doesn't lessen the disappointment of us failing to achieve the potential of the squad. We could really have done big things this year. We had an utterly woeful start to the season, but find ourselves 9 points off a champions league spot. Even a decent start to the season would have had us right up there. We went out of the FA cup to Reading, after beating the holders, and potentially setting up a very winnable tie against City. There was a real chance to win a trophy there. Birmingham managed to win the Carling Cup, for Christ's sake.

Missed opportunities; that is the theme of the season. That pain and that disappointment isn't helped one iota knowing that the financial efficiency of our squad.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Well said.

Financially Moyes is -- £ for £ -- unrivalled. Possibly in world football, not just English football.

But that doesn't lessen the disappointment of us failing to achieve the potential of the squad. We could really have done big things this year. We had an utterly woeful start to the season, but find ourselves 9 points off a champions league spot. Even a decent start to the season would have had us right up there. We went out of the FA cup to Reading, after beating the holders, and potentially setting up a very winnable tie against City. There was a real chance to win a trophy there. Birmingham managed to win the Carling Cup, for Christ's sake.

Missed opportunities; that is the theme of the season. That pain and that disappointment isn't helped one iota knowing that the financial efficiency of our squad.

The Reading game.

Seems like every bloody season we have to have a low point like that to make us go on a good run.

How does a manager who is so good, so highly rated, able to create squads who can beat ManU and Chelsea in consectutive games be so unable to have a consistent season without having to "get us out of it" every time?

If we were average all the time and finished 10th-12th every season it wouldn't be so frustrating. But because we can and have done better it makes it harder to take and more confusing why we can be so crap that we don't win in the first 6 games of the season.

No its not all down to Moyes but he is the man in charge so rightly or wrongly shoulders the blame alongside the credit.

And its not all to do with money because at our best we are a match for any team who have spent more than us and are currently on a good run with barely any players. So for me it seems as though a lot of the same problems would be here regardless of how much money we spent.

 

[Bedfordshiretoffee]

I really would like to see how Moyes would fare with an unlimited budget, but in the face of adversity we are achieving a minor triumph. On the basis some of our wounded are the highest paid,does this mean Moyes has failed in one respect because it is his lesser lights who are shining. He has succeeded by default, ie by having his hand forced through injuries.
We have Manure, Citah and Chelsea plus WBA and Wigan coming up, one wonders whether our makeshift crew can stretch us to over 50 points or more. I would still like to see Arteta, Cahill, Fellaini and Saha back, if only on the bench for starters. We have lost just eight games in 33 and I don't want that excellent record ruined by a succession of late losses.
One final point, convert some of those huge number of draws into wins and reflect on what a different season it would have been. Shame really

 

[faddy the blue]

Simply cos the likes of Osman and Hibbert know what world does Everton mean to them and after sitting out watching the others **** on the field they let their aggression out and showed the world what it means to play for everton. As for Billy, he wanted a good run of games and now he's getting it and his improvements are slowly but surely visible. As for Gueye...this always happens when you inject some fresh blood who's hungry to make a mark. I can see him scoring a couple of goals from now till the end of the season.

 

[Bedfordshiretoffee]

Billy is getting there slowly. According to the Mail on Sunday stats show he is our quickest player. He makes Kevin Sheedy look Ursain Bolt. Surely Seamus is our fastest mover. Heitinga is our slowest, no surprise there.
We can beat City, Wigan and maybe get a point from WBA. 54 points and 6th or seven would be a miracle after the dustbin season we have had. In the annals of history it would not tell the whole story.

 

[somuchfun]

I think the injuries have forced us to play more straight forward football again instead of just passing inside our own area. Gets results and the less time we pass inside our half, less chance there is for that crap pass that gifts opponents goals. I do like the fact that Moyes is trying to transform our game to be visually more pleasant, but it feels like it has taken a toll in our effectiveness. Plus I think Hibbo and Osman are good workers, Beckford is getting there and the likes of Magaye and Vellios are talented and will be ace and they also put their shift in.

 

[johnnydawg68]

At the start of the season we were tipped as title challengers - with people like Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill, Saha and Fellaini in our ranks.
Instead we were largely hopeless until players like Billy, Hibbert, Coleman, Beckford, Magaye and Osman stepped into the breach.
Bizarre, at first we couldn't win now we can't buy a defeat.
Anyone got the answer to this strange equation?

Mate, I was thinking the exact same thing this morning watching the match again. Was gonna post it and it's already on here. It's just flat out weird. I think Moyes does struggle for team selection when he has choices. I said that before the year and it's still true. Before he can make that leap into truly "elite" status as a manager, he needs to be able to chop and change on the fly during the course of a season and get positive results.

 

[billycopper]

At the start of the season we were tipped as title challengers - with people like Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill, Saha and Fellaini in our ranks.
Instead we were largely hopeless until players like Billy, Hibbert, Coleman, Beckford, Magaye and Osman stepped into the breach.
Bizarre, at first we couldn't win now we can't buy a defeat.
Anyone got the answer to this strange equation?

Pienaar- a good player, but he has his limitations. His future will have been on his mind and so his form suffered while he remained with us.
Arteta- not playing to his strengths having him so deep. He switches off and let's people go past him. Playing from the left, with more of an attacking license he looked like the player of old.
Cahill- with Tim in the side we're restricted to 4-4-1-1. Beckford can't yet be relied on to lead the line by himself, so we ended up with Saha who offered no movement.
Saha- doesn't have the acceleration of old, so prefers to drift wide or drop deep to pick the ball up. We ended up with no one in a striking position a lot of the time.

Bily- still not really showing what he can do. When he puts his mind to it he's capable of wonder strikes as well as more predatory goals. His unpredictability unsettles defenders.
Hibbert- his enthusiasm and commitment are infectious.
Coleman- gives us pace on the break and a willingness to take a man on.
Beckford- I think he's now scored as many goals as Saha for the season, which is pretty impressive considering Louis racked up nearly half of those in one game. He creates chances for himself.
Gueye- his contribution from corners alone beats anything that's gone before it this season.
Osman- he's revelled in being our creative hub. He might have 3 goals in 6 games, but he should have twice that many.

All in all, we were a bit fatigued and we were going through the motions, especially as we've failed to significantly freshen the squad up over the last couple of years. The players who've come in are pacy, hungry and more direct. It's now up to Moyes to develop genuine competition for places. Saha can't be an automatic choice ahead of Beckford, especially if he's on such a goal-scoring drought. Arteta shouldn't be guaranteed a place, if Osman, Bily or Gueye are showing better form. Hopefully that will be the biggest plus from this season.

 

[Rook]

1. Moyes couldn't pick his best XI?

.

Well the way we've been playing it seems like our best 11 doesn't include Arteta, Fellani, Saha, Cahill and Pinnear. If that's the case I would have no idea what our best 11 is either.

The reason why we sucked is that we tried to be Arsenal and somewhat succeeded. Arsenal's performance today looked was a mirror image of what we did for the 1st 3 months of the year. Teams also put 9-10 back and let us pass ourselves to death as well knowing we can't score and we will give up a goal or 2 on the counter.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Kind of offtopic, but - just a reminder to people jumping on Billy: he gets the job done. Scores goals, is effective (even if we want him to be a dynamo and have inhuman pace and unending stamina) and makes assists, or at least gives the inch perfect cross, which someone - last few games Osman - flops at. In the Villa game Ossie should've scored 5, and 4 would've been Billy assists. FACT.

Proceed.

 

[billycopper]

Well the way we've been playing it seems like our best 11 doesn't include Arteta, Fellani, Saha, Cahill and Pinnear. If that's the case I would have no idea what our best 11 is either.

The reason why we sucked is that we tried to be Arsenal and somewhat succeeded. Arsenal's performance today looked was a mirror image of what we did for the 1st 3 months of the year. Teams also put 9-10 back and let us pass ourselves to death as well knowing we can't score and we will give up a goal or 2 on the counter.

I think it's a bit of a mix and match situation. It benefits the opposition, not us, that we can generally predict Moyes's side when everyone is fit. I can appreciate that the gaffer was trying to let Saha play himself in to form, but a year without scoring was far too long. Similarly, Arteta has been horribly out of sorts this season. If players aren't producing the goods, then someone else should be given a chance to stake a claim. For me, we need a solid central midfield. I don't think it's any coincidence that our run of good form has come about since Neville has been switched back to the anchor role. Fellani has to go next to him (although Rodwell and Heitinga should be pressing for his place). It's then up to Coleman, Arteta, Osman, Gueye, Bily and Anichebe to fight it out for the wider positions.

 

[Dublintoff]

But should have been better, as for the often trotted out "be careful what you wish for", I wish for success not mediority.

I wish for mediocrisy over relagation battles. A sad truth. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

But should have been better, as for the often trotted out "be careful what you wish for", I wish for success not mediority.

With the size of the first team squad and money at our disposal I do not think 7th is mediocre. All the teams above us have significant more resources than us and I stick with the point that given the same hand there are very few managers if any in the league that would do better.

If you argue that we should have more resources then that is different