2019/20 Bernard

[windymiller]

Iwobi has struggled at times in the final third but the build up stuff that people think Bernard does Iwobi does at a much higher level. The other thing is Iwobi has only gotten one game central and he was absolutely brilliant.

The just back from injury thing is the latest way to mask that Bernard isn't doing much. Before it was the strikers aren't good enough or whatever. I'm glad he's scored two goals this year but I see very little to suggest he gets more than 1 or 2 more. I won't make any predictions for Iwobi because he won't be scoring in a 4-4-2 either. Our wingers aren't good right now. There isn't much to say otherwise I just think Iwobi could do it centrally.

The thing about Zlatan is his antics are funny until you realize he isn't playing around and he's actually just a bit of a Richard. It just isn't worthwhile in the way Eto'o turned out not to be because he couldn't handle a lesser role on a mid table team and Eto'o didn't even have that big of an ego.

I've shown you the stats, mate. Keep on beating that drum though, all it does is make you look more detached from reality.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I've shown you the stats, mate. Keep on beating that drum though, all it does is make you look more detached from reality.

Goals and assists are very now level stats when you are trying to predict what will happen in the future. A good example of that is a lad named Sandro Ramirez.

I may be wrong about Iwobi. I may be wrong about Lookman. I am not wrong about Bernard. Nowhere near good enough for what we want to be.

 

[andy4efc]

Goals and assists are very now level stats when you are trying to predict what will happen in the future. A good example of that is a lad named Sandro Ramirez.

I may be wrong about Iwobi. I may be wrong about Lookman. I
may be wrong about Bernard. Nowhere near good enough for what we want to be.

Fixed..

Your opinion is not fact.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Fixed..

Your opinion is not fact.

Today I am not wrong about Bernard. I'll put my hand up if that changes. But his performance level has been pretty steady since his debut.

 

[windymiller]

Goals and assists are very now level stats when you are trying to predict what will happen in the future. A good example of that is a lad named Sandro Ramirez.

I may be wrong about Iwobi. I may be wrong about Lookman. I am not wrong about Bernard. Nowhere near good enough for what we want to be.

Last time I checked scoring more goals than the opposition was still the way to win football matches. In the past 36 hours you have now stated that a good first touch, goals and assists are all overrated. All in support of the idea that a lad with a poor first touch, no assists and one goal in 15 league appearances is a creative colossus. If, as you say, goals and assists are "low (you actually said now but I assume this was a typo) level stats" what stats should we use to judge an attacking player? You clearly loathe Bernard but adore Iwobi, you claim this is because of their relative contribution to the team (or at the very least their potential for future contributions) but offer no evidence other than your own, clearly biased opinions - which, given you don't think controlling a football, creating goals or scoring them are important characteristics, are of a very "low level" - to support this argument. How are we supposed to take you seriously?

 

[Connor]

Iwobi has struggled at times in the final third but the build up stuff that people think Bernard does Iwobi does at a much higher level. The other thing is Iwobi has only gotten one game central and he was absolutely brilliant.

The just back from injury thing is the latest way to mask that Bernard isn't doing much. Before it was the strikers aren't good enough or whatever. I'm glad he's scored two goals this year but I see very little to suggest he gets more than 1 or 2 more. I won't make any predictions for Iwobi because he won't be scoring in a 4-4-2 either. Our wingers aren't good right now. There isn't much to say otherwise I just think Iwobi could do it centrally.

The thing about Zlatan is his antics are funny until you realize he isn't playing around and he's actually just a bit of a Richard. It just isn't worthwhile in the way Eto'o turned out not to be because he couldn't handle a lesser role on a mid table team and Eto'o didn't even have that big of an ego.

Mental how no one cares

 

[TheBigIguana]

Last time I checked scoring more goals than the opposition was still the way to win football matches. In the past 36 hours you have now stated that a good first touch, goals and assists are all overrated. All in support of the idea that a lad with a poor first touch, no assists and one goal in 15 league appearances is a creative colossus. If, as you say, goals and assists are "low (you actually said now but I assume this was a typo) level stats" what stats should we use to judge an attacking player? You clearly loathe Bernard but adore Iwobi, you claim this is because of their relative contribution to the team (or at the very least their potential for future contributions) but offer no evidence other than your own, clearly biased opinions - which, given you don't think controlling a football, creating goals or scoring them are important characteristics, are of a very "low level" - to support this argument. How are we supposed to take you seriously?

The problem is I really like some stats that just get openly mocked on here. I'm not going to bother posting the stuff I look at because I don't care to deal with that.

But think about Bernard's goals for a second. One is because a keeper who got dropped for a 33 year old who has never played in the top flight misplayed a shot from zero angle and the other is because a shot went through a defenders legs and deflected off a second defender to sneak in. He has 3 other shots this whole season. Iwobi meanwhile has 19 shots for 1 goal. Now you're going to say that's a sign that Bernard is a better finisher but given how his goals happened is that actually true? Or has Bernard just had a slice of fortune that Iwobi hasn't that is unlikely to continue?

The other thing about that is goalscoring is imo the weakest part of what Iwobi does. But I still see him as someone who over a long period, say a whole season or two, would score more.

This is all I'm doing when I look at our players. Trying to dig a bit deeper than "He scored so he's good" or "his control stinks so he isn't." With Bernard I see very little evidence that what he's contributing is hugely helpful. Or at the very least not something we could get at a similar level from someone 5 years younger who might actually grow into more.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Mental how no one cares

Great post mate thanks for the input. Always can count on you.

 

[Spocks-a-Blue]

No way fam

View attachment 73406

I rate rate him and glad he’s with us but have a strong suspicion he’s standing on a box for this!

 

[Everton_Gary]

The problem is I really like some stats that just get openly mocked on here. I'm not going to bother posting the stuff I look at because I don't care to deal with that.

But think about Bernard's goals for a second. One is because a keeper who got dropped for a 33 year old who has never played in the top flight misplayed a shot from zero angle and the other is because a shot went through a defenders legs and deflected off a second defender to sneak in. He has 3 other shots this whole season. Iwobi meanwhile has 19 shots for 1 goal. Now you're going to say that's a sign that Bernard is a better finisher but given how his goals happened is that actually true? Or has Bernard just had a slice of fortune that Iwobi hasn't that is unlikely to continue?

The other thing about that is goalscoring is imo the weakest part of what Iwobi does. But I still see him as someone who over a long period, say a whole season or two, would score more.

This is all I'm doing when I look at our players. Trying to dig a bit deeper than "He scored so he's good" or "his control stinks so he isn't." With Bernard I see very little evidence that what he's contributing is hugely helpful. Or at the very least not something we could get at a similar level from someone 5 years younger who might actually grow into more.

If my mom was a man she'd be my dad.....

Saying buts and what ifs to make your point you lose validity. A vast majority here would say when he's playing he offers creativity, ball retention, a spark, Digne plays better when he's in the side, makes good runs and looks for the ball.

You're entitled to your opinion and you see something different to many others. You saw things different with Lookman when many others saw the opposite. Maybe your a bad judge of a decent footballer or maybe the majority of us are.

I for one like him in the side and until a better option is bought he deserves to start.

 

[windymiller]

The problem is I really like some stats that just get openly mocked on here. I'm not going to bother posting the stuff I look at because I don't care to deal with that.

But think about Bernard's goals for a second. One is because a keeper who got dropped for a 33 year old who has never played in the top flight misplayed a shot from zero angle and the other is because a shot went through a defenders legs and deflected off a second defender to sneak in. He has 3 other shots this whole season. Iwobi meanwhile has 19 shots for 1 goal. Now you're going to say that's a sign that Bernard is a better finisher but given how his goals happened is that actually true? Or has Bernard just had a slice of fortune that Iwobi hasn't that is unlikely to continue?

The other thing about that is goalscoring is imo the weakest part of what Iwobi does. But I still see him as someone who over a long period, say a whole season or two, would score more.

This is all I'm doing when I look at our players. Trying to dig a bit deeper than "He scored so he's good" or "his control stinks so he isn't." With Bernard I see very little evidence that what he's contributing is hugely helpful. Or at the very least not something we could get at a similar level from someone 5 years younger who might actually grow into more.

The reality is that, at the moment, I enjoy watching Bernard play more than I enjoy watching Iwobi play. Couple that with, despite your assertions to the contrary, the fact that currently Bernard is more effective and I find your position hard to follow. I actually have no issue with Iwobi, I hope he improves and does well, we spent a lot of money on him after all, but you have lost all sense of perspective on this subject.

 

[TheBigIguana]

If my mom was a man she'd be my dad.....

Saying buts and what ifs to make your point you lose validity. A vast majority here would say when he's playing he offers creativity, ball retention, a spark, Digne plays better when he's in the side, makes good runs and looks for the ball.

You're entitled to your opinion and you see something different to many others. You saw things different with Lookman when many others saw the opposite. Maybe your a bad judge of a decent footballer or maybe the majority of us are.

I for one like him in the side and until a better option is bought he deserves to start.

The reality is that, at the moment, I enjoy watching Bernard play more than I enjoy watching Iwobi play. Couple that with, despite your assertions to the contrary, the fact that currently Bernard is more effective and I find your position hard to follow. I actually have no issue with Iwobi, I hope he improves and does well, we spent a lot of money on him after all, but you have lost all sense of perspective on this subject.

I know everyone loves him. I don't get it. He doesn't shoot. He doesn't go on long, winding dribbles. He doesn't create very much himself. Those are the things I like and he really isn't those.

The ball retention thing is always interesting because he is good at it. The problem is ball progression is not something he does as well. That's something Iwobi is good at. I'd like to find the stats for that but I don't save them and doubt you care. It's something that we are poor at everywhere else.

The Digne thing is a legit point in his favor. I've said a couple of times that at the moment he should play because of it. But at the same time when you look around and see Wolves and Brighton with better players in his position it becomes a bit of an issue. Him being the best we have currently doesn't make him good.

 

[Nymzee]

Ignore the stats, he’s class and he’s important for us.

I love stats and even I don’t analyse them for him.

 

[judge]

Bernard's good, Iwobe is terrible (runs about a bit but doesn't actually make any positive contribution to the game).

The end.

 

[bignev23]

A good player in there but he's been mostly underwhelming since his arrival here. Levels above Iwobi for me though. Both have a goal ratio of around one in ten in the prem which is pretty poor considering they're forwards.