Bad ref decisions - for and against - season 2025/26

[Moomin]

Should not have gave the Ref the chance to show the red card.

Blame is with Gueye on this one. Any contact to the face will always be a red card in todays game.

 

[Lanolin]

Totally agree with this and have been saying it for ages. The terms such as "subjective" and "clear and obvious" are deliberately designed to simultaneously mean everything and nothing. It would make a politician blush how transparent it all is. They are terms that can be whatever you want them to be.

Last night is a classic example......if it had been De Light and Fernandes then its all nice and "negligible". Of course, this cant be proven, but we all know that certain teams get reffed differently. Having said all that, our players should also be aware of this, don't go to the likes of Old Trafford and give the ref an opportunity on a golden platter. In that respect IGG was an idiot

Subjective isn't a term in the laws though, it's just a fact of life that the decisions will be subjective and people not understanding that is an absolutely massive problem with this type of thing.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

That incident happens with us and an opposition player what would happen?nothing I reckon at best a yellow

 

[aj79]

Subjective isn't a term in the laws though, it's just a fact of life that the decisions will be subjective and people not understanding that is an absolutely massive problem with this type of thing.

That's a fair point, and you are right to say that subjective isn't a term in the laws. But is is trotted out by officials left right and centre to justify stuff. Which often is fine. There are plenty of decisions that are genuinely subjective. To use an example, if you had 20 seasoned football fans who have all played the game at a certain level and understand it well, you often get a penalty or red card where 10 will say yes, 10 will say no. Its a genuinely tough call. If you are on the wrong side of one of those then suck it up. Its gone against you, and fans, managers and players whining in those situations are equally responsible for the bad feeling towards officials as the officials making mistakes.

But on occasions the split will be far higher, 17/18 people would say penalty, 2 would say no penalty. So technically subjective, but you wonder what the the 2 have been smoking/drinking. A good recent example of this I feel is the recent penalty Arsenal should have had v Newcastle. Gyokeres absolutely wiped out by Pope, Pope looks guilty as sin, pen all day long. but for every 10 people saying "I cant believe that they have overturned that" you were getting one saying "yeah, but he does nick the ball with his toe". The whole thing then gets buried in a file marked subjective

 

[ElGato]

Should not have gave the Ref the chance to show the red card.

Blame is with Gueye on this one. Any contact to the face will always be a red card in todays game.

Untrue

Count over the next few weeks the amount of times that players butt heads and both get yellows. Refs have always practiced flexibility to ensure situations get diffused.

Just not for us, this time

 

[Bedfordblue]

Untrue

Count over the next few weeks the amount of times that players butt heads and both get yellows. Refs have always practiced flexibility to ensure situations get diffused.

Just not for us, this time

That’s the ridiculous thing with that rule, if he had poked him in the cheek or held his jaw he’d have got a yellow I reckon.
The ‘slap’ was barely worthy of the name, yet is deemed violent conduct.
No room for common sense.

 

[If You Know Your History]

Any contact to the face will always be a red card in today's game.

Players deliberately butt heads on an almost weekly basis.

If players were given a straight red card every time they made contact with someone else's head, no matches would end XI v XI.

The referee handed them an extraordinary advantage - 80-odd minutes with an extra man. He could have ruined the entire match.

 

[Moomin]

Players deliberately butt heads on an almost weekly basis.

If players were given a straight red card every time they made contact with someone else's head, no matches would end XI v XI.

The referee handed them an extraordinary advantage - 80-odd minutes with an extra man. He could have ruined the entire match.

It was a slap, not a stand off of people posturing with there heads against each other.

If it was an opposition player who slapped Keane he would have got a red card.

Blame is at Gueye's door for this. If he never slapped Keane he wouldn't have got sent off.

 

[ElGato]

It was a slap, not a stand off of people posturing with there heads against each other.

If it was an opposition player who slapped Keane he would have got a red card.

Blame is at Gueye's door for this. If he never slapped Keane he wouldn't have got sent off.

Ifa my Grandmother hada wheels she'da have been a bike

It wasn't an opposition player though was it. Yes the blame is at Gueyes door. But that was also diabolical refereeing

Both can be true at the same time

 

[Moomin]

Ifa my Grandmother hada wheels she'da have been a bike

It wasn't an opposition player though was it. Yes the blame is at Gueyes door. But that was also diabolical refereeing

Both can be true at the same time

Doesn't matter, it was violent conduct.

He slapped him, he shouldn't have done it.

 

[Lanolin]

That's a fair point, and you are right to say that subjective isn't a term in the laws. But is is trotted out by officials left right and centre to justify stuff. Which often is fine. There are plenty of decisions that are genuinely subjective. To use an example, if you had 20 seasoned football fans who have all played the game at a certain level and understand it well, you often get a penalty or red card where 10 will say yes, 10 will say no. Its a genuinely tough call. If you are on the wrong side of one of those then suck it up. Its gone against you, and fans, managers and players whining in those situations are equally responsible for the bad feeling towards officials as the officials making mistakes.

But on occasions the split will be far higher, 17/18 people would say penalty, 2 would say no penalty. So technically subjective, but you wonder what the the 2 have been smoking/drinking. A good recent example of this I feel is the recent penalty Arsenal should have had v Newcastle. Gyokeres absolutely wiped out by Pope, Pope looks guilty as sin, pen all day long. but for every 10 people saying "I cant believe that they have overturned that" you were getting one saying "yeah, but he does nick the ball with his toe". The whole thing then gets buried in a file marked subjective

I'm not sure that's true. While decisions about fouls are all ultimately subjective, there's obviously a point at which there is an expectation that the 'correct' decision will be reached. If Tarkowski made the exact same save from Zirkzee that Pickford did last night then it would still technically be a subjective call, but in practice it would always be a penalty and red card. You can't hide behind saying it's subjective for everything, it's just that there are cases (like last night) when there's a decent argument both ways and you just have to accept that. The 'common sense' approach would have been to apply a level of mitigation because it was a team mate but by the letter of the law it's a red card all day long, if it had been Fernandes who did the exact same thing to Keane we would all have demanded him to be sent off and suggesting otherwise is massively disingenuous. On that basis I just think people calling it 'shocking' and 'diabolical' is ridiculous, and means that genuine criticisms can be ignored much more easily because it seems like we're all tin foil hat wearing weirdos who claim that every decision against us is a disgrace and evidence of a conspiracy.

 

[ElGato]

Doesn't matter, it was violent conduct.

He slapped him, he shouldn't have done it.

Yes he shouldn't have slapped him. I've agreed with you there but will agree again for your ego

As to whether it was violent conduct, it's not so black and white as is about 'negligible' force. You'll have your opinion on that, and so did the referee. The law offered him the opportunity to diffuse the situation and he chose to whip out the red card faster than that cartoon that shoots his own shadow

 

[aj79]

I'm not sure that's true. While decisions about fouls are all ultimately subjective, there's obviously a point at which there is an expectation that the 'correct' decision will be reached. If Tarkowski made the exact same save from Zirkzee that Pickford did last night then it would still technically be a subjective call, but in practice it would always be a penalty and red card. You can't hide behind saying it's subjective for everything, it's just that there are cases (like last night) when there's a decent argument both ways and you just have to accept that. The 'common sense' approach would have been to apply a level of mitigation because it was a team mate but by the letter of the law it's a red card all day long, if it had been Fernandes who did the exact same thing to Keane we would all have demanded him to be sent off and suggesting otherwise is massively disingenuous. On that basis I just think people calling it 'shocking' and 'diabolical' is ridiculous, and means that genuine criticisms can be ignored much more easily because it seems like we're all tin foil hat wearing weirdos who claim that every decision against us is a disgrace and evidence of a conspiracy.

Obviously there is still that line whereby something utterly blatant (such as an outfield player diving full length to deliberately save a shot) would have any technical element of subjectivity dismissed. One person disagreeing in those circumstances would be rightly dismissed as a nutter or someone who just doesn't understand the game. But I do think a fair amount of blatant stuff gets caught up in "subjectivity" and therefore creates an out for incorrect decisions.

Another example apart from the Gyokeres one this season would be McCallister in the Community Shield v Palace. 2 minutes to go, sticks his hand 3 ft above his head and handles it. Now I know the handball rule is a bit of a mess, but that has been a penalty for the last 100 years and it is still a penalty today. Absolutely no debate. But the ref bottled it, didn't want to give a last minute penalty v them. I know it was a glorified friendly, but that just reinforces the point. If you cant give a penalty against them in that kind of game, what chance in a game at Anfield? But during the decision process there is a lot of umming and ahing about "is this a handball?" "the ref might look at this"........and its just incredibly blatant. I know its the pundits and commentators doing the umming and ahing but it just feeds the machine whereby the refs are not scrutinised for a really poor decision.

In essence re last night however I do agree with you. I think there was plenty of room for common sense. Especially as the ref isn't being put in the awkward position of one of the players clutching his face in mock agony following the "strike" to the face. But there was plenty of scope within the loosely worded law to issue a red (what is negligible? I would suggest that slap was extremely negligible but others may disagree) In that respect, the criticism should start and end with IGG and an extremely daft loss of control. Its just very difficult to shake the feeling that had it been between 2 Utd players, then the ref would have adopted the "common sense approach" and again, would have been covered by the laws of the game. But that is the great unprovable!

 

[Pootsy]

Should not have gave the Ref the chance to show the red card.

Blame is with Gueye on this one. Any contact to the face will always be a red card in todays game, for us.

Fixed that for you mate.

 

[Ring master]

I would appeal the Red myself - A yellow at best for me