4 5 1

[Fletch]

I didnt know this until today, but when we beat Bayern Munich in the 80's and went on to win the European Cup, Kendall played a 4 5 1 formation which our success was attributed to.

Is the difference that we didnt play hoofball then and do now ????

 

[GrandOldTeam]

To be fair, 4-5-1 sometimes can be no different than 4-4-2, depending how the 4-5-1 is played...

If its a flat 5 man midfield, then fair enough. But if you have Cahill/Osman supporting the striker, then the only difference is a few yards on the pitch really, depending on the supporting midfielder/strikers tendency to get forward.

Its seems to be only really described as a "packed midfield" 4-5-1 when the likes of Everton play it. When Man Utd/Liverpool/Chelsea do, all of a sudden Sky jazz it up a bit as 4-1-3-2 or something.

 

[Sharpys top lip]

I didnt know this until today, but when we beat Bayern Munich in the 80's and went on to win the European Cup, Kendall played a 4 5 1 formation which our success was attributed to.

Is the difference that we didnt play hoofball then and do now ????

----------------Southall------------

steven-----ratts------mountfield-----pat---

stevens----reid--------brace----------sheedy--

----------grey-------sharpe---------


I just dont get what you mean? Am i missing somthing? where's the 4-5-1. no way did grey or sharpe drop into the hole, it just wasn't their game

Maybe inchy could do it. but how often did he play that season?

 

[Gazdalf]

4-5-1 is a 4-3-3 defensive formation.

 

[TsarDiniyar]

i'm not a fan of 4-5-1 especially at home in the derby

 

[ToxtethBlue]

I'm only a fan if we've got Arteta, Pienaar and Osman in there. That means we've got the creativity to get the likes of Yakubu and Cahill into goalscoring positions. If we've got two defensive midfielders in there then it doesn't really work.

It's good that we can adapt to both formations though, we don't have to stick to one and we can mix it up depending on the game.

 

[coyney]

To behonest mate I was at the games both legs and in the away I thought we played a cautious 4-4-2 But my memory is not great

 

[Bruce Wayne]

4-5-1 is a 4-3-3 defensive formation.

Exactly. Probably only Barca play a proper 4-3-3 formation where the wide strikers don't track back.

In reality most teams now (Man Utd, Chelsea, Inter et al) play 4-3-3 when they have the ball and 4-5-1 when they don't.

Another variant of the system has been adopted by teams like Milan, Valencia and the other lot, whereby they use two holding players and three attacking players behind the striker. I dare say this is what we're going for, with Castillo and Feilaini the holding players and Arteta, Osman/Pienaar and Cahill behind Yak.

The system seems to rely on two things above all else. Firstly you need a holding player that can get the side ticking. Someone like Xavi at Barca or Scholes at United. I dare say this was what Feilaini was signed for and he hasn't settled in yet.

Secondly you need full backs that are happy to bomb on. Barca excluded, most sides that play this system have wide players that cut inside. Pienaar and Arteta both do this for us, so to maintain width you need the full backs pushing on. I'd like to think that when things settle down that Baines will start playing at left back as he offers this much better than Lescott. The other side is Neville *shrug*. Enough said.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

You need wing forwards in a 4-3-3 though, Arteta and Pienaar are basically central midfielders. The wing forwards need the pace to get as close to the lone forward when they are attacking, neither Arteta or Pienaar are that quick.

Van der Meyde is the only wing forward we have, he doesn't play at all.

Deep lying play makers are usually used aswell. Players who can pass from deeper positions and bring your forward players into the game. Fernandes would have been perfect for this, Fellaini I don't think so. He's a bit of a drifter, he likes to pass and then get into the box as soon as possible.

I don't think we could do it at all, we just don't have the players.

 

[Neiler]

Does anoyne else feel we have no balance in the team unless we play 4-5-1. With Pienaar hopefully playing a part tonight and Ossie pushing in centrally hopefully between them two and arteta we can be a little more creative then the first leg.

TThogh i have a sneaking supicon hel play a big team.


My 11 would be:


------------------Howard

Neville--------Yobo-------Jags----Lescott


--------------------Castillo-------------


Arteta-------Cahill----------Ossie-------Pienarr


---------------------Yak--------------------

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Does anoyne else feel we have no balance in the team unless we play 4-5-1. wityh Pienaar hopefully playing a part tonight and ossie pushing in centrally hopefull between them to and arteta we can be a little more creative.

In the past yes but that was when we had players like Carsley who only revelled in a 4-5-1.

Now we have different options and in Saha and Yakubu we have a potentially excellent partnership. We've yet to have a fully fit first choice midfield out either. Having Pienaar and Arteta on the flanks gives us alot of balance.

We'd have to find the right balance between Osman, Fellaini, Castillo, Rodwell etc.

 

[trigger the blue]

4-3-1-2

My team for liege would be 4-3-1-2
HOWARD

YOBO JAGIELKA LESCOTT BAINES

CASTILLO
ARTETA OSMAN

CAHILL

YAK SAHA

SUBS---NASH,NEVILLE,PIENAAR,VAUGHAN,HIBBERT,ANICHEBE,BAXTER
COME ON YOU BLUES KEEP THE SEASON ALIVE

 

[Fletch]

----------------Southall------------

steven-----ratts------mountfield-----pat---

stevens----reid--------brace----------sheedy--

----------grey-------sharpe---------


I just dont get what you mean? Am i missing somthing? where's the 4-5-1. no way did grey or sharpe drop into the hole, it just wasn't their game

Maybe inchy could do it. but how often did he play that season?

This what Ratcliffe wrote on the official EFC site.

"The final was a fine reward but actually the semi-final against Bayern Munich was the most memorable tie of that campaign. Tactically Howard [Kendall] got it right over in Germany, playing an extra man in midfield and one upfront. Howard was a modern day tactician in some ways and that gave us a little bit extra."

 

[ToxtethBlue]

We played 4-5-1 in the first leg I think, 4-4-2 won us the tie though.

 

[Fletch]

For the record I think Lescot will play centre back and Valente will come in at left back, they targetted Roger in the first leg as a weak point in that position and I seem to remember they were overlapping all night on the right hand side, just running at us from there.