“Fans” that won’t support us if we get Allardyce

[tim cahill]

@tim cahill Honest question here.We all want this football club, to compete with the elite again.Do you think Sam Allardyce is the man to get us there?

No. I don’t think many of the players are either but i’ll still support them while they’re at the club.

 

[DrEFC]

Some gold from the vaults here

Where is @tirion these days btw?
Changed your opinion of BFS yet, mate?

Not quite sure why I've been included in this weird multiquote?

 

[MickA]

And you've admitted he's improved our position yet still labelled him appalling. Struggling to see how an improvement can be put in the appalling bracket.

Take Pardew at West Brom for example. He came in at pretty much the same point as Big Sam with West Brom in 17th, 2 points above 18th, 3 points behind us. Pardew's West Brom are now rock bottom, 7 points adrift, and 14 behind us. That to me is appalling.

West Brom were 8th for a lot of last season, and finished in the top half (10th). So the fact they are going down in such a manner after being in that position is surprising.

By 2 points. Over 14 games. With £50m spent.

 

[TraffordBlue]

By 2 points. Over 14 games. With £50m spent.

If you break his time here down you could argue:

From Huddersfield up to West Brom away = Excellent.
From West Brom away - now. Mostly poor, except for a few decent home results.

Would you disagree with that?

 

[MickA]

If you break his time here down you could argue:

From Huddersfield up to West Brom away = Excellent.
From West Brom away - now. Mostly poor, except for a few decent home results.

Would you disagree with that?

Huddersfield - decent enough, style not for me personally
Liverpool - very lucky (could easily have been a heavy defeat had Mane passed the ball)
Newcastle - lucky (hit the post twice)
Swansea - get there in the end but largely dreadful
Chelsea - lucky (25 shots at us, 8 on target, none in return)
WBA - very lucky (should have been 2 down at HT)

Far from excellent for me.

 

[TraffordBlue]

Huddersfield - decent enough, style not for me personally
Liverpool - very lucky (could easily have been a heavy defeat had Mane passed the ball)
Newcastle - lucky (hit the post twice)
Swansea - get there in the end but largely dreadful
Chelsea - lucky (25 shots at us, 8 on target, none in return)
WBA - very lucky (should have been 2 down at HT)

Far from excellent for me.

None of what you've said there is inaccurate. However, it would be unfair to say they were lucky results and ignore the luck Koeman got in the Bournemouth win for example, or the luck Unsworth got in the Watford game where Cleverley missed the penalty at the end.

But in terms of where we were when Allardyce came in, that run was excellent in my opinion in terms of the defensive improvement, the opposition faced and most importantly, the points gained.

Only West Ham and Stoke had conceded more goals than us when he came in, and we'd just conceded 5 against Atalanta and 4 against Southampton. He came in, got us 3 wins and 3 draws, conceding only 2 goals in 6 games, and one of our games was at Anfield where our record is a disgrace and they even put 4 past the best side in the country not long ago. Sometimes you just have to be able to give credit where it's due.

 

[IV(AC)]

Um, I predicted witch trials.

You've started a witch trial.

Correct.
Burn the witches

Whomsoever supported his appointment or is still sitting there clapping Samuel needs to be brought before the court

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Correct.
Burn the witches

Whomsoever supported his appointment or is still sitting there clapping Samuel needs to be brought before the court

Ah, you're the witchfinder general

 

[windymiller]

None of what you've said there is inaccurate. However, it would be unfair to say they were lucky results and ignore the luck Koeman got in the Bournemouth win for example, or the luck Unsworth got in the Watford game where Cleverley missed the penalty at the end.

But in terms of where we were when Allardyce came in, that run was excellent in my opinion in terms of the defensive improvement, the opposition faced and most importantly, the points gained.

Only West Ham and Stoke had conceded more goals than us when he came in, and we'd just conceded 5 against Atalanta and 4 against Southampton. He came in, got us 3 wins and 3 draws, conceding only 2 goals in 6 games, and one of our games was at Anfield where our record is a disgrace and they even put 4 past the best side in the country not long ago. Sometimes you just have to be able to give credit where it's due.

The persistent comparisons with Koeman and Unsworth are bizarre. No one is arguing that Koeman and Unsworth weren't bad, they were, that's why, quite rightly, that they are no longer managing this football club. The fact that Allardyce has done very marginally better is, to most people on here, neither here nor there. What is important is the future of this club, all managers have good luck and bad luck, what matters is the long term pattern both of results and style of play. Allardyce comes up short on both of those things for most peoples expectations and needs to be moved on as soon as possible. Winning the Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce tallest dwarf competition is meaningless in the context of the long-term prospects of this club and getting bogged down in the minutiae of who is slightly less crap than someone else takes us backwards not forwards.

 

[Toffeelover]

Huddersfield - decent enough, style not for me personally
Liverpool - very lucky (could easily have been a heavy defeat had Mane passed the ball)
Newcastle - lucky (hit the post twice)
Swansea - get there in the end but largely dreadful
Chelsea - lucky (25 shots at us, 8 on target, none in return)
WBA - very lucky (should have been 2 down at HT)

Far from excellent for me.

Chuck Bournemouth and Watford in that list- Ugh.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Sam Allardyce as Everton manager is like one of those birds you aren't that keen on, but will go back and smash it if you're on a bit of a drought.

 

[TraffordBlue]

The persistent comparisons with Koeman and Unsworth are bizarre. No one is arguing that Koeman and Unsworth weren't bad, they were, that's why, quite rightly, that they are no longer managing this football club. The fact that Allardyce has done very marginally better is, to most people on here, neither here nor there. What is important is the future of this club, all managers have good luck and bad luck, what matters is the long term pattern both of results and style of play. Allardyce comes up short on both of those things for most peoples expectations and needs to be moved on as soon as possible. Winning the Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce tallest dwarf competition is meaningless in the context of the long-term prospects of this club and getting bogged down in the minutiae of who is slightly less crap than someone else takes us backwards not forwards.

It provides context though.

Allardyce inherited a side in poor form, no 25 goal a season striker like Lukaku available to him, without a left back etc.

Everything else you said, I agree with.

 

[MickA]

It provides context though.

Allardyce inherited a side in poor form, no 25 goal a season striker like Lukaku available to him, without a left back etc.

Everything else you said, I agree with.

16/17
Goals after 14 games - 17
Goals after 28 games - 32

17/18
Goals after 14 games - 17
Goals after 28 games - 47

Of course there are factors such as Lukaku and Barkley but you could counter by saying Tosun and Walcott. Equally it cannot be dismissed that in Allardyce's 14 games we have had the fewest shots in the league and created the fewest chances.

 

[windymiller]

It provides context though.

Allardyce inherited a side in poor form, no 25 goal a season striker like Lukaku available to him, without a left back etc.

Everything else you said, I agree with.

To a degree that is true. On the Lukaku and left back situation though, he bought Tosun who he won't play and publicly exclaimed that there were no left backs available in the whole world. He's had money and opportunities to resolve those issues and for whatever reason chose to stick with Niasse and Martina. That's odd.

 

[TraffordBlue]

To a degree that is true. On the Lukaku and left back situation though, he bought Tosun who he won't play and publicly exclaimed that there were no left backs available in the whole world. He's had money and opportunities to resolve those issues and for whatever reason chose to stick with Niasse and Martina. That's odd.

Yeah, I have actually made that exact same point in the other Allardyce thread myself. He also sent Lookman out on loan which I am annoyed about as I think he would have given us an attacking threat on the left to compliment the threat we have on the right with Walcott, even if it's coming off the bench.

To be clear by the way, I am not defending him to the point where I think he should be kept on past this season. After (in my opinion), he started off well and got us results we needed initially, he has undone almost all of the good work he did from Huddersfield to West Brom, with the performances and poor results since then.