2023/24 Sean Dyche

[DualityNSNO]

4 wins worse than Carlo - same games, worse squad (attack wise undoubtedly)

Worse defense with no Doucoure though (which surprises me as I feel we've been good defensively even without him?) - which can be an argument for not finding a way to get points without his "first team", so to say. Carlo's was Allan - Doucoure - JameZ but he at least got points without the 3 together.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

Worse defense with no Doucoure though (which surprises me as I feel we've been good defensively even without him?) - which can be an argument for not finding a way to get points without his "first team", so to say. Carlo's was Allan - Doucoure - JameZ but he at least got points without the 3 together.

Of course he did, he's a better manager than Dyche and had DCL actually looking like scoring goals.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Of course he did, he's a better manager than Dyche and had DCL actually looking like scoring goals.

Not only looking, he actually scored them too

 

[Paul Rideout]

Worse defense with no Doucoure though (which surprises me as I feel we've been good defensively even without him?) - which can be an argument for not finding a way to get points without his "first team", so to say. Carlo's was Allan - Doucoure - JameZ but he at least got points without the 3 together.

I agree.

would be interesting to see what Carlo's win rate was like without his 'key man' (James).

I just found it interesting that we're not THAT far away from Carlo levels of results... especially given that I can think of at least 2 games we've lost in the league that we really should have won (Fulham, Luton).

Just wish he'd make his subs 15 mins earlier than he does...

 

[DualityNSNO]

I agree.

would be interesting to see what Carlo's win rate was like without his 'key man' (James).

I just found it interesting that we're not THAT far away from Carlo levels of results... especially given that I can think of at least 2 games we've lost in the league that we really should have won (Fulham, Luton).

Just wish he'd make his subs 15 mins earlier than he does...

That and game management/tactical adaptability (or rather inflexibility I guess) are massive problems, the rest you could say could be down to poor finishing or whatever excuse else, but these are down to him entirely.

 

[steele]

From evertonfc.com, that is encouraging and shows what Dyche tries to implement in the squad:

"Everton picked up a handy point last time out, earning a 2-2 draw against Tottenham Hotspur at Goodison Park.
In the game, the Blues displayed an organised system of defending from the front, winning the ball 18 times in the attacking third – the most any Premier League team has accumulated in a single game since Liverpool against Norwich City in February 2020.

Everton's pressing ranks among the league’s finest, with the Toffees recording more high turnovers (240) than any other Premier League."

 

[DualityNSNO]

From evertonfc.com, that is encouraging and shows what Dyche tries to implement in the squad:

"Everton picked up a handy point last time out, earning a 2-2 draw against Tottenham Hotspur at Goodison Park.
In the game, the Blues displayed an organised system of defending from the front, winning the ball 18 times in the attacking third – the most any Premier League team has accumulated in a single game since Liverpool against Norwich City in February 2020.

Everton's pressing ranks among the league’s finest, with the Toffees recording more high turnovers (240) than any other Premier League."

Translate it to wins or it's as pointless as the "1000 passes per game" stat in the Martinez era.

 

[DanEFC92]

Translate it to wins or it's as pointless as the "1000 passes per game" stat in the Martinez era.

And more concerned about the most big chances missed stat as well

 

[LucBesson]

And more concerned about the most big chances missed stat as well

I think the amount of big chances we miss is, in part, a result of the frenetic nature of our attacks to be fair. It's very scrappy, balls into areas, percentages, no real measure to it all. But it's also down to individual quality as well. There's no excuse for some of them and we can all think of 5-10 off the top of our heads.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Is not scoring enough goals… I know we can point to sitters being missed…. But the fact is we are not scoring … if dom needs 10 chances to score then we have to create 10 …. We are stuck with the strikers we have and they are not clinical enough for us to only be creating one or two chances a game .. so we need to find a way of creating more .

You said we don't create enough. Of course if you completely disregard the good chances we miss then it will look like we don't create, but that's a bit silly.

Our issue is chance conversion, not creation.

 

[Titus Bramble]

We do.

I’ve been quite critical of Doucoure in the past and he is far from a good technical player, but he is key for us. He gets around the pitch, and he finds the spaces that DCL makes, which has led to him getting a lot of goals.

When he doesn’t play, we barely score because no one else does that. Just look at our record with or without him over the past few years.

Dyche is just another manager that hasn’t found a solution to when he is missing.

Saw this on Reddit:

View attachment 245353

I've seen something similar to this before.

The fact that even a manager of the ilk of Carlo Ancelotti found it difficult to find a way to win without Doucoure is quite striking.

 

[DualityNSNO]

I've seen something similar to this before.

The fact that even a manager of the ilk of Carlo Ancelotti found it difficult to find a way to win without Doucoure is quite striking.

That's a bizarre statement in itself - it's not like Doucoure carried us then - in the games we lost (in the league) that season we had either a lot of injuries or suspensions, meaning we played with Iwobi, Tom Davies and Andre Gomes as a midfield 3 Or 3-4-3 due to the same situation. Some we lost with Doucoure in the team for the same reason too tbh.

Feels like people are hyperfocusing on Doucoure's role as water carrier in that team basically - his role was to win the ball back and press relentlessly, which we know he's good at, and he did wonderfully. He wasn't a creative or driving force then as we'd set up differently and had ball players in the team. Difference was that we still had more than 1 mode of playing with him in the team and we changed it up, or Carlo at least made subs when it wasn't working.

 

[Titus Bramble]

That's a bizarre statement in itself - it's not like Doucoure carried us then - in the games we lost (in the league) that season we had either a lot of injuries or suspensions, meaning we played with Iwobi, Tom Davies and Andre Gomes as a midfield 3 Or 3-4-3 due to the same situation. Some we lost with Doucoure in the team for the same reason too tbh.

Feels like people are hyperfocusing on Doucoure's role as water carrier in that team basically - his role was to win the ball back and press relentlessly, which we know he's good at, and he did wonderfully. He wasn't a creative or driving force then as we'd set up differently and had ball players in the team. Difference was that we still had more than 1 mode of playing with him in the team and we changed it up, or Carlo at least made subs when it wasn't working.

I realise completely out of context stats can be misleading and not tell the whole story (I spend a lot of my work life poring over Spreadsheets... yay me) and of course there are lots of moving parts to it... but the fact of the matter is that our win percentage under our last 4 full time managers drops significantly when Doucoure doesn't play:

	Carlo Ancelotti	Fat Spanish Waiter	Frank Lampard	Angry Scotch Egg
With Doucoure	52%​	33%​	33%​	41%​
Without Doucoure	22%​	0%​	7%​	0%​

Anyway... I don't disagree with the wider point, we need to find a way to win when Doucoure is not in the side.

 

[DualityNSNO]

I realise completely out of context stats can be misleading and not tell the whole story (I spend a lot of my work life poring over Spreadsheets... yay me) and of course there are lots of moving parts to it... but the fact of the matter is that our win percentage under our last 4 full time managers drops significantly when Doucoure doesn't play:

	Carlo Ancelotti	Fat Spanish Waiter	Frank Lampard	Angry Scotch Egg
With Doucoure	52%​	33%​	33%​	41%​
Without Doucoure	22%​	0%​	7%​	0%​

Anyway... I don't disagree with the wider point, we need to find a way to win when Doucoure is not in the side.

I feel the spreadsheet pain to be honest, I've moved on from that job but still have to do a lot with excel and I hate it. Hope you or your company can afford CoPilot, as it will help you a lot!

Oh I mean it's more complex, it's not like it's the same 10 players and Doucoure being out being the only change - and I've openly criticised Carlo for this too - he went from a winning formula (or at least one that got us to play good and effective ball) to 3-4-3s and 5-3-2s and all that for a longer time than needed, including a quarter vs City I believe, and that change sent us on a losing run in a pretty important moment.

With that said, again, you're right and we need to find alternative ways to play (even with Doucoure in the team) as it's naive to expect to have the same starting 11 every game and the same plan to work for every game, really.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I feel the spreadsheet pain to be honest, I've moved on from that job but still have to do a lot with excel and I hate it. Hope you or your company can afford CoPilot, as it will help you a lot!

Oh I mean it's more complex, it's not like it's the same 10 players and Doucoure being out being the only change - and I've openly criticised Carlo for this too - he went from a winning formula (or at least one that got us to play good and effective ball) to 3-4-3s and 5-3-2s and all that for a longer time than needed, including a quarter vs City I believe, and that change sent us on a losing run in a pretty important moment.

With that said, again, you're right and we need to find alternative ways to play (even with Doucoure in the team) as it's naive to expect to have the same starting 11 every game and the same plan to work for every game, really.

I've actually recently moved into it and loving it I've gone from having 9 direct reports to zero and it's the best thing I've done work-wise for ages.

Anyway... Up the gravelly voiced toffees!