Champions League revamp

[BirkenheadBlue]

Think there’s a lot missing the point.

It’ll never come to the point of them actually being kicked out. But the PL simply *have* to be willing to do that.

you think any of those 6 sides are walking away from league football? No. If they are somehow convinced that the PL are serious (some sort of binding agreement needs to be drawn up that can’t be reneged on that they’re out if they don’t withdraw) they’ll fold.

It’s the equivalent of a nuclear deterrent, and the only way it works is that PL have to be WILLING to push that button - that is the only way they will bring the 6 back in line.

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree.

I'm saying what I think will happen.

Do I think Premier League will have courage in their conviction and play the bigger picture?

Absolutely not.

TV money controls the game now, and the audiences are with the 6.

Everyone will have a view on this, and it's fair to say, there are a number of options that could occur, and each of them has validity.

It's certainly true, there would be a short term hit if they were booted out. How severe that would be is open to question, but it wuld be a hit,

It would also be true, that the remaining teams would all get a bigger peice of the pie if they went, albeit a smaller pie. Again, how much you think the pie decreases starts to become important then.

There are also complicating factors such as the medium term play is the league may then start growing and regress back to mean, or that the broadcasters may actually pay less than they would if the 6 stay, as they can no longer trust them. Again, how you assign value to each is difficult.

So there are at least 4 or 5 things that dictate the worth. You'd think logically that they would be factored in,

What is probably more likely with football people, is they just make an emotional decision and see this as a point of no return. The top 6 have essentially given everyone nothing, backed people into a corner, and sometimes, in such situations people will just fight. I like to think I'm quite a rational guy (with business anyway!) but I've been at poker tables where I will make a big play, not because the odds state it's right too, but because I'm being pushed around too much at the table and have to make it clear I won't be having it. This feels to me like a moment where they have been pushed into such a corner such an emotional response could happen.

Maybe they just get invited back. Maybe the 6 say we will come back on condition of Project Big Picture being agreed? At the other end you have expulsion. In between that you have a range of points penalties, a ban from european comps for x amount of time etc.

If I were picking the mean scenario, I could see a points deduction, maybe from next season, and UEFA banning them for 2-3 years.

There are so many scenarios in this though. If City break and a couple follow (say Chelsea and Arsenal) then it obviously allows the rest of the PL to be far more aggressive. It really is up the wall.

 

[Martin Alvito]

People are forgetting that the 14 will lose out if the 6 are expelled because the moneymen will follow the demand/audiences.

Expel them, and the 6 get the mega money and the 14 get even less money than they currently do.

The TV deal isn't maintained when the ESL have their own provider and the numbers.

I'm as aware of that as they are.

It's not clear that the players, or sponsors, will follow the money on this one. The ESL's money is now dirty. FIFA and UEFA are going to war. Players' agents are going to be telling them that they have to balance the short run gains associated with taking the ESL's money against the long run damage done to their brands by turning their backs on their national teams and selling out to the cartel.

For the biggest fish in the pond, their image is worth more than any checks a club will ever write in today's environment.

The big money TV contract will end up where the players end up, and the money will eventually follow them there. The mistake that I think the ESL has made is to believe that if they have enough money, they'll attract the players. I'm not convinced that's the case in today's environment.

 

[catcherintherye]

Think there’s a lot missing the point.

It’ll never come to the point of them actually being kicked out. But the PL simply *have* to be willing to do that.

you think any of those 6 sides are walking away from league football? No. If they are somehow convinced that the PL are serious (some sort of binding agreement needs to be drawn up that can’t be reneged on that they’re out if they don’t withdraw) they’ll fold.

It’s the equivalent of a nuclear deterrent, and the only way it works is that PL have to be WILLING to push that button - that is the only way they will bring the 6 back in line.

They have to at least bluff it.

 

[Connor]

Oh I don't know if it's true but if true you can imagine the 2 clubs that risk losing a chance at winning a CL would be like oo err, didn't realise that could happen.

Lol

"The clubs are waiting for the storm to die down."

 

[Zatara]

If you hand out a punishment that is so severe they might as well leave you’re effectively forcing them to move away as well which hurts everyone.

either you expel or you punish so that it’s not seen as a death sentence but enough to hurt for a year or two.

What's another £350m?

They already have a massive head start mate.

Compare Man City etc's wealth to the bottom 10 of the league.

People are forgetting that the 14 will lose out if the 6 are expelled because the moneymen will follow the demand/audiences.

Expel them, and the 6 get the mega money and the 14 get even less money than they currently do.

The TV deal isn't maintained when the ESL have their own provider and the numbers.

That's the cards the 14 have.

The solution to this has to be state driven. It has to be fan ownership.

This 'so called' Big 6.

The global tv revenue will of course come from most customers wanting to watch the best teams.

What happens if there are a different 6 teams in the champions league next season AND they have a higher share of the domestic revenues as well.

Those clubs can build better teams with the money and sign players that overseas viewers want to watch.

So many Asian fans (for example) followed United....then Liverpool...now City etc etc

Its all about whose at the top.

100pts deducted + 5 year ban for each.

Start with back channeling that and see what we end up with.

3 of the 6 need to be relegated though.

 

[BlueToff]

Not having it tbh Jimbo, no good source has put it out there. Stinks of the media banding together to sow seeds of doubt within these clubs.

I do think Chelsea have some leverage if they want to back down though. Abramovic asks the government to bin any sanctions against Russians/Putin allies in return for Chelsea killing the idea.

City won't bail. They see it as the ultimate sod you to UEFA, something they've been looking to do since they were taken over

As much as Klopp flip-flopped yesterday (I think he probably said what he could about his owners, he just lost his head taking everything personally like he always does), Pep has the chance to do a lot better today.

This stuff about fans changing it doesn't wash for me. The owners don't care about the fans. They care about the product.

And the 'product' is the players and managers.

 

[mightymoyes]

Think there’s a lot missing the point.

It’ll never come to the point of them actually being kicked out. But the PL simply *have* to be willing to do that.

you think any of those 6 sides are walking away from league football? No. If they are somehow convinced that the PL are serious (some sort of binding agreement needs to be drawn up that can’t be reneged on that they’re out if they don’t withdraw) they’ll fold.

It’s the equivalent of a nuclear deterrent, and the only way it works is that PL have to be WILLING to push that button - that is the only way they will bring the 6 back in line.

at this point they need to be very heavily punished even if they back down

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I'm as aware of that as they are.

It's not clear that the players, or sponsors, will follow the money on this one. The ESL's money is now dirty. FIFA and UEFA are going to war. Players' agents are going to be telling them that they have to balance the short run gains associated with taking the ESL's money against the long run damage done to their brands by turning their backs on their national teams and selling out to the cartel.

For the biggest fish in the pond, their image is worth more than any checks a club will ever write in today's environment.

The big money TV contract will end up where the players end up, and the money will eventually follow them there. The mistake that I think the ESL has made is to believe that, if they have enough money, they'll attract the players. I'm not convinced that's the case in today's environment.

Disagree mate.

The money will always follow the audiences. As will the players.

if you want integrity, you get involved lower down the pyramid.

 

[Connor]

As much as Klopp flip-flopped yesterday (I think he probably said what he could about his owners, he just lost his head taking everything personally like he always does), Pep has the chance to do a lot better today.

This stuff about fans changing it doesn't wash for me. The owners don't care about the fans. They care about the product.

And the 'product' is the players and managers.

Guardiola isn't going to have a pop either. It benefits himself, the club he manages, and the club he loves

Might not lose his head like Goosestep did tho

 

[Zatara]

If you hand out a punishment that is so severe they might as well leave you’re effectively forcing them to move away as well which hurts everyone.

either you expel or you punish so that it’s not seen as a death sentence but enough to hurt for a year or two.

What's another £350m?

They already have a massive head start mate.

Compare Man City etc's wealth to the bottom 10 of the league.

People are forgetting that the 14 will lose out if the 6 are expelled because the moneymen will follow the demand/audiences.

Expel them, and the 6 get the mega money and the 14 get even less money than they currently do.

The TV deal isn't maintained when the ESL have their own provider and the numbers.

That's the cards the 14 have.

The solution to this has to be state driven. It has to be fan ownership.

This 'so called' Big 6.

The global tv revenue will of course come from most customers wanting to watch the best teams.

What happens if there are a different 6 teams in the champions league next season AND they have a higher share of the domestic revenues as well.

Those clubs can build better teams with the money and sign players that overseas viewers want to watch.

So many Asian fans (for example) followed United....then Liverpool...now City etc etc

Its all about whose at the top.

100pts deducted + 5 year ban for each.

Start with back channeling that and see what we end up with.

3 of the 6 need to be relegated though.

 

[GwladysBlue]

If this is the case, threaten expulsion from the Premier League and actually follow through with it.

 

[catcherintherye]

Divide and conquer.

Don’t deal with them as a “6” - disciplinary proceedings for each one separately, start with Tottenham - let’s test that solidarity - hearing for second club doesn’t start until punishment handed out to first - who are they gonna get support from.

I said this a couple of days ago. Personally I'd put a statement out essentially stating anyone in that competition will not be allowed in the PL and will have a 5-10 year wait to rejoin if they ever wanted to come back (and would have to start at the bottom). They should also say, the first 3 teams to break rank and return get their places back, but there are only 3 places available, with relegation not happening this season. There is a deadline for the end of April, and the 1st 3 teams to do it get to come back.

That would put enormous pressure on. They're all greedy swines and would be worried the other would sell them out.

 

[Zatara]

....oh and call in Spurs £175mil loan

 

[daza_1973]

Lol

"The clubs are waiting for the storm to die down."

Their collective arrogance knows no bounds.