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Champions League revamp

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daza_1973 said:

Off BBC sport:​

Taking away a dream - Taylor​

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Simon Stone
BBC Sport
As PFA chief executive Gordon Taylor pointed out, football evolves. England's 'big six' now used to be a 'big four' - Liverpool, Manchester United, Tottenham and Arsenal - then Everton joined it. Now Manchester City and Chelsea are part of the club and Everton are not.
"Things change," said Taylor.
"I remember Blackburn, when Jack Walker appeared, and they won the Premier League.
"It is always a hope and what supporters can dream of but it takes away a dream. I don’t think it will be good for the game at all in the long run."

I'm 47 can't ever remember this scenario - did i miss something?
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My grandad always used to say that Arsenal were the biggest team in the south and Everton were the biggest team in the north and everyone else couldn’t match the pedigree of those two. No idea if he was right or not but no way Spurs Liverpool or United were bigger than us before the 60s.
 
nsno-chris said:
The super league automatically devalues the PL

You think that massive TV deal is happening in the next round of negotiations?? Not a chance

The money will be the ESL, the clubs will prioritise that
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You think it's happening without 80% of the audience figures? Not a chance.

That's why I'm astonished people really think Everton will play in a domestic league without Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs.

If that happens, money falls out the arse of the Premier League (TV money goes) and the gap between Everton and those clubs get even bigger than if they remained.
 
Tubey said:
Relegate the six, reprieve for clubs who finish bottom three this season and three clubs come up from the Championship. That's the punishment just for what they've done now.

If it goes ahead, for reasons said above, I genuinely can't see an alternative to throwing them out.
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They’re not relegating them.
I agree, throw away the key for me, but they’re not banishing them.
 

Martin Alvito said:
What you're seeing right now is exactly how wars happen.

You have a complicating incident that hardens resolve on both sides. Neither side really wants the war, and if they knew ex ante who would win they'd settle it at the conference table because the war is ex post inefficient (stuff gets destroyed), but the two sides are far apart due to resolve hardening, the outcome is uncertain and both sides believe they can win.

The 14 have to play the hand they're dealt, which involves threatening to kick out the six. The alternative is capitulation, which is unacceptable to their stakeholders. The six don't believe them, and too many of them can't back down financially.

Everything I know about bargaining, international relations and war tells me that the two sides going their separate ways is a very real possibility, even though there was no way on God's green earth it could ever happen 48 hours ago.
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Exactly this.

The alternative is accepting annihilation long term.

What's the point in bending over to them now to survive for a few years if you're absolutely 100% certain to be destroyed/irrelevant forevermore?

They've surely overplayed their hand.
 
GrandOldTeam said:
You think it's happening without 80% of the audience figures? Not a chance.

That's why I'm astonished people really think Everton will play in a domestic league without Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs.

If that happens, money falls out the arse of the Premier League (TV money goes) and the gap between Everton and those clubs get even bigger than if they remained.
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Are players going to play in 'Super League' which means they can't play in their national team?
 

GrandOldTeam said:
Amazed people really think the Premier League will expel Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool, Man Utd, Tottenham and Chelsea.
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If they allow the ESL to go ahead and don’t kick them out the prem and their respective leagues then competitive football is basically dead. I’m only 31 and Everton has been a huge part of my life, but I’d be walking away and paying it no further heed. Life’s too short to watch and be angered by a completely rigged game. It’s difficult enough as it is but it is possible as Leicester showed. That won’t be possible any longer. The whole point of football disappears. I, and I believe hundreds of thousands of other fans, would leave the game behind.
 
Martin Alvito said:
What you're seeing right now is exactly how wars happen.

You have a complicating incident that hardens resolve on both sides. Neither side really wants the war, and if they knew ex ante who would win they'd settle it at the conference table because the war is ex post inefficient (stuff gets destroyed), but the two sides are far apart due to resolve hardening, the outcome is uncertain and both sides believe they can win.

The 14 have to play the hand they're dealt, which involves threatening to kick out the six. The alternative is capitulation, which is unacceptable to their stakeholders. The six don't believe them, and too many of them can't back down financially.

Everything I know about bargaining, international relations and war tells me that the two sides going their separate ways is a very real possibility, even though there was no way on God's green earth it could ever happen 48 hours ago.
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People are forgetting that the 14 will lose out if the 6 are expelled because the moneymen will follow the demand/audiences.

Expel them, and the 6 get the mega money and the 14 get even less money than they currently do.

The TV deal isn't maintained when the ESL have their own provider and the numbers.

That's the cards the 14 have.

The solution to this has to be state driven. It has to be fan ownership.
 
jazzy said:
But at least the remaining competition/s retain some sporting integrity
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Mate... there's no 'sporting integrity' here, let's be honest.

It comes down to money, just like UEFA's nonsense CL changes from 2024.

There has to be the right balance.

Trust me, I want each and every one of these clubs punished harshly, but I know there's going to have to be a balance between doing that, and not doing so much that they f off anyway. You can say that's fine, but it's not. It's really not, because the money would follow.

The owners have to be the ones made out to be the bad guys here (and they are being) but it has to stay that way. Don't give them a get out clause where they can get their fans on-side.

The punishment has to be there and has to be right. Points deductions, transfer bans, European ban. That will hurt them. But equally so, if over the right time period and implemented in the right way, nobody will claim it was unfair.

If you 'kick them out', or automatically relegate or whatever, it'll just make the breakaway even more likely.

I take into account what @Tubey and @tsubaki have said, about it delaying the inevitable. So then, it's where government(s) - specifically the UK here but across Europe as well - have to step in, for the long-term good. Independent bodies, get people like Taylor out of the PFA and get the FA and PL properly regulated.
 
Tubey said:
OK, let's see what happens if by some miracle this goes ahead.

I'd be gobsmacked if they're Premier League teams if it does.
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I want you to be right, but honestly think Premier League will slap them on the wrist, Ang give them a meaningless points deduction.

UEFA will ban them from Europe, and the Premier League will crawl back under its rock, still making a huge tonne.
 

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