2018/19 Idrissa Gueye

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Here are some posts i agree with.

Have to sell the guy...if there were no rules then keep him, but there are rules.

And rules we must follow...

People said the same about Fellaini and Barry, acting as though there was no way we’d ever find anyone as good at what they did. Look how we adapted how we play though, once Fellaini left we no longer looked to play off him and instead play through the lines a lot more now. Barry leaving allowed us to get in far more dynamic midfielders which means we can now press high rather than playing with Barry almost as a third centreback.

I think Gueye has been promised a move, and when he goes we’ll receive good money for him and a chance to bring in a younger player who may help us play in a completely different way. Instead of a defensive tackler we may buy an Alonso or Busquets type who sits deep, reads the game well but can distribute brilliantly from deep, or we may move to the system Silva experimented with when he had Davies playing deep spraying balls around to the flanks. We could get in a superior version of that type of player and look to really dominate possession alongside Gomes.

In short, we would have numerous possibilities open to us if we sold Gueye and those acting like he’s the only midfielder in the world who can ensure we have a functioning midfield are ridiculous. We’ve had in my view a very average midfield since the retirement of Osman and Pienaar. It’s been nowhere near the midfield we had under Moyes when we had Arteta Cahill Pienaar Osman Fellaini all at their peaks. Nowhere near as consistent, nowhere near as good in possession, nowhere near as hardworking, nowhere near as creative. So we need to stop acting like Gueye is a Kante like figure singlehandedly driving us to trophies. We should embrace the opportunity to replace him effectively and come out the other side with a better midfield.
 
What tells you he is de-motivated? He played unreal 2nd half of the season and said how much he appreciated Everton. A big contract matching what Psg could pay would be worth it. If not and he wants to get instant trophies i don't blame him. He has been totally respectful of our club. I'd wish him the best but i'd want more than his value. The same as every club does to us etc Sigurdson. He is worth more to us than his value so if he is to go. They have to pay up.

I agree, although if, as some would have it, that there was an agreement with him to go, then keeping him would demotivate him.
IMO
 
If we get multiple good years from Gana, which we could certainly still get as there's ZERO suggestion that he's going to deteriorate any time soon, then he'll pay for himself. We haven't got a clue what our financial situation will be in 3-4 seasons time. By then we could have all number of saleable assets we could use to find a replacement for a number of positions or we could even be in Europe thanks to players like Gana playing well, which means we'll have the budget and the reputation to bring in better players. We could also develop the likes of Williams to be a natural Gana replacement

He could very well have multiple years left in the tank, and if he plays to the level we know he can then we can be in a better position in 3 years time than we are now, so just saying "He's nearly 30 so he has to go for FFP reasons" is not a good enough justification for selling him in my opinion

We're a better team when Gana Gueye plays and he can still give us many more years. If he wants to go then we should let him and cash in, but if there's any chance he'll stay then we need to pursue it full bore
 
People said the same about Fellaini and Barry


Nobody said the the same thing about Fellaini and Barry. And it's not that he's irreplaceable, just that he would be incredibly hard to replace. He's probably the best player available to us in that role and still has plenty of years left in him, it just doesn't make sense to sell unless we already have someone really good lined up to replace him. Teams cut through us like butter when he wasn't on the field last season
 

Nobody said the the same thing about Fellaini and Barry. And it's not that he's irreplaceable, just that he would be incredibly hard to replace. He's probably the best player available to us in that role and still has plenty of years left in him, it just doesn't make sense to sell unless we already have someone really good lined up to replace him. Teams cut through us like butter when he wasn't on the field last season

Loads of people said the same about Fellaini absolutely loads of them. It was only because the whole Moyes poaching him and Baines saga left a bad taste in the mouth that towards the end some people were glad to see him go. Wind the clock back a few months before that though and the general view on the fan base was that he was indispensable.

I’m not arguing to replace him like for like. I agree that would be difficult. But our midfield set up isn’t great anyway because it’s based around two players who can only do one thing. Gueye has to play in a certain position to do what he’s good at and due to his limitations on the ball he has to be partnered in the deep midfielder role. Siggurdson has to play at number 10. That means we can only ever really play the 4231 formation. Take either out and we look rubbish. That doesn’t mean that these two are world beaters, it means it’s a poor system. Liverpool or City can play nearly any midfield combination in different formations and still perform well.

Sell Gueye (id sell Siggurdson as well but beggars can’t be choosers) and bring in a player that could allow us to play in a different way. Maybe we wouldn’t get run through as much if we dominated possession better. Perhaps we wouldn’t have such an onus on Richarlison and Siggurdson to score if we had a more creative midfield overall, one that could score goals also, perhaps be effective on set pieces too.

We should see this as an opportunity and I bet Brands has been after having 6 months to prepare for it I suspect.

Our top players will always leave, whether it’s to a mega club in their prime, or to Sheffield United for retirement. It’s only a matter of when. As a fan base we have an irrational fear of effective player trading. We’re still going on about the Rooney and Arteta sales despite them being yonks ago. That lot across the park have sold far more than we have recently yet it’s not done them any harm at all. Chelsea have just sold their best player, United may well do this window, Arsenal do it all the time.

If we had a trophy winning world 11 I’d say fair enough, we might want to hang onto them until the magic goes and it needs a refresh. But this squad needs major major surgery and effective player trading is going to be a huge part of that. Right when we need to be getting on board with Brand’s impressive revamp (which it has been so far), we have a fan base complaining about selling any players (‘it’s just sell to buy’) and especially averse to selling any players that might have value.
 
Would he start for PSG with their current midfield? Anyone know?

He still has three years left at the top level and he is easily one of the best mids in Europe.

Really don’t want to sell. We will regret it.

Yes, get in a replacement to bed in and learn from gana for when we do let him go.
 
Loads of people said the same about Fellaini absolutely loads of them. It was only because the whole Moyes poaching him and Baines saga left a bad taste in the mouth that towards the end some people were glad to see him go. Wind the clock back a few months before that though and the general view on the fan base was that he was indispensable.

I’m not arguing to replace him like for like. I agree that would be difficult. But our midfield set up isn’t great anyway because it’s based around two players who can only do one thing. Gueye has to play in a certain position to do what he’s good at and due to his limitations on the ball he has to be partnered in the deep midfielder role. Siggurdson has to play at number 10. That means we can only ever really play the 4231 formation. Take either out and we look rubbish. That doesn’t mean that these two are world beaters, it means it’s a poor system. Liverpool or City can play nearly any midfield combination in different formations and still perform well.

Sell Gueye (id sell Siggurdson as well but beggars can’t be choosers) and bring in a player that could allow us to play in a different way. Maybe we wouldn’t get run through as much if we dominated possession better. Perhaps we wouldn’t have such an onus on Richarlison and Siggurdson to score if we had a more creative midfield overall, one that could score goals also, perhaps be effective on set pieces too.

We should see this as an opportunity and I bet Brands has been after having 6 months to prepare for it I suspect.

Our top players will always leave, whether it’s to a mega club in their prime, or to Sheffield United for retirement. It’s only a matter of when. As a fan base we have an irrational fear of effective player trading. We’re still going on about the Rooney and Arteta sales despite them being yonks ago. That lot across the park have sold far more than we have recently yet it’s not done them any harm at all. Chelsea have just sold their best player, United may well do this window, Arsenal do it all the time.

If we had a trophy winning world 11 I’d say fair enough, we might want to hang onto them until the magic goes and it needs a refresh. But this squad needs major major surgery and effective player trading is going to be a huge part of that. Right when we need to be getting on board with Brand’s impressive revamp (which it has been so far), we have a fan base complaining about selling any players (‘it’s just sell to buy’) and especially averse to selling any players that might have value.

This is basically it. There seems to be a view propagated that it's either;
1) Gana is an excellent player or
2) We should sell Gana if the right offer comes in.

To me both can be true at the same time. In truth I am not sure we have the luxury of always hanging onto our players, irrespective of price if we want to be successful. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but if you can let people go at the right time then you can buy better players.

Our position is very similar to sides in the Bundesliga, Spain or even France who have to overcome teams above them who can greatly outspend them. In all cases they do not mirror what the sides above them do as they'd be doomed to failure. Sides like Atletico Madrid, Sevilla, Dortmund, Schalke, Monaco etc have all had enormous success on the back of this approach. They have a functional and cold view of a player and when a price point is met they go.

So you have to look at the player in question and ask does it make sense for them to leave now? In Gana's case, probably. He is 29 and still has a lot to offer but is not getting any younger and coming off the back of an excellent end to the season. Someone will pay good money. Fast forward 12 months and we don't know where we will be with him.

I'd also suggest a gentlemans agreement came that he could go, and you generally kill moral of a team going back on those. He was excellent last season but pretty poor the season before as well.

My view is, if Gana goes, we could have Delph at a similar age and wages come in for next to nothing. The 30+ million profit on the deal could then pay for Malcolm, or Kean or Leao or an other. To me thats smart business.

If a good offer doesn't come in, I'll be happy to keep him too, but I don't think we can be turning down £30 + million for 29 year old midfielders.
 
Loads of people said the same about Fellaini absolutely loads of them. It was only because the whole Moyes poaching him and Baines saga left a bad taste in the mouth that towards the end some people were glad to see him go. Wind the clock back a few months before that though and the general view on the fan base was that he was indispensable.

I’m not arguing to replace him like for like. I agree that would be difficult. But our midfield set up isn’t great anyway because it’s based around two players who can only do one thing. Gueye has to play in a certain position to do what he’s good at and due to his limitations on the ball he has to be partnered in the deep midfielder role. Siggurdson has to play at number 10. That means we can only ever really play the 4231 formation. Take either out and we look rubbish. That doesn’t mean that these two are world beaters, it means it’s a poor system. Liverpool or City can play nearly any midfield combination in different formations and still perform well.

Sell Gueye (id sell Siggurdson as well but beggars can’t be choosers) and bring in a player that could allow us to play in a different way. Maybe we wouldn’t get run through as much if we dominated possession better. Perhaps we wouldn’t have such an onus on Richarlison and Siggurdson to score if we had a more creative midfield overall, one that could score goals also, perhaps be effective on set pieces too.

We should see this as an opportunity and I bet Brands has been after having 6 months to prepare for it I suspect.

Our top players will always leave, whether it’s to a mega club in their prime, or to Sheffield United for retirement. It’s only a matter of when. As a fan base we have an irrational fear of effective player trading. We’re still going on about the Rooney and Arteta sales despite them being yonks ago. That lot across the park have sold far more than we have recently yet it’s not done them any harm at all. Chelsea have just sold their best player, United may well do this window, Arsenal do it all the time.

If we had a trophy winning world 11 I’d say fair enough, we might want to hang onto them until the magic goes and it needs a refresh. But this squad needs major major surgery and effective player trading is going to be a huge part of that. Right when we need to be getting on board with Brand’s impressive revamp (which it has been so far), we have a fan base complaining about selling any players (‘it’s just sell to buy’) and especially averse to selling any players that might have value.

I think it was quite obvious early on that Fellaini wasn't going to suit Martinez's style of play. I don't think there was that many shouts about him be irreplaceable as you let on

The difference is that Gana seems genuinely key to how Silva wants us to play, whilst Martinez never seemed that bothered by Fellaini and saw him more as someone he could sell so that he could bring in McCarthy
 
This is basically it. There seems to be a view propagated that it's either;
1) Gana is an excellent player or
2) We should sell Gana if the right offer comes in.

To me both can be true at the same time. In truth I am not sure we have the luxury of always hanging onto our players, irrespective of price if we want to be successful. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but if you can let people go at the right time then you can buy better players.

Our position is very similar to sides in the Bundesliga, Spain or even France who have to overcome teams above them who can greatly outspend them. In all cases they do not mirror what the sides above them do as they'd be doomed to failure. Sides like Atletico Madrid, Sevilla, Dortmund, Schalke, Monaco etc have all had enormous success on the back of this approach. They have a functional and cold view of a player and when a price point is met they go.

So you have to look at the player in question and ask does it make sense for them to leave now? In Gana's case, probably. He is 29 and still has a lot to offer but is not getting any younger and coming off the back of an excellent end to the season. Someone will pay good money. Fast forward 12 months and we don't know where we will be with him.

I'd also suggest a gentlemans agreement came that he could go, and you generally kill moral of a team going back on those. He was excellent last season but pretty poor the season before as well.

My view is, if Gana goes, we could have Delph at a similar age and wages come in for next to nothing. The 30+ million profit on the deal could then pay for Malcolm, or Kean or Leao or an other. To me thats smart business.

If a good offer doesn't come in, I'll be happy to keep him too, but I don't think we can be turning down £30 + million for 29 year old midfielders.

I personally think we should let Gana go if he wants to go, because forcing him to stay isn't the best idea and we could get some decent money for him from PSG

However, if we possibly can convince him to stay then we certainly should
 

I dont agree with a single thing in this post.

Even your example of Makalele to Chelsea for me has no comparison because of the pots of cash thrown into Chelsea at the time when there were no FFP regulations.

Not to mention the clear fact that Gana and Makalele...i mean how can you even dare to compare the two lol

Its basically like asking would you want the best player in the world in their position at 30 years old...erm yes...totally irrelevant to Gana in every way shape or form.

Youre telling me Gana is world class? Give over.

Im all for the 'Roy of the Rovers' love for players and to totally discount the financial side of the business, but in that case its best to just admit you want to keep the player out of sentiment (see Coleman, Seamus)...
Zat I think you view Gana on the ball as Tony Hibbert in midfield so you are always going to be more negative on him than most. I think you're way off base with that but you've held that view for a long time now.
 

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