2017/18 Tom Davies

kenada_blue · February 25, 2018

Him, Rooney, Pickford, Walcott all play for me.

Everyone else can be binned off.

toffee-L · February 25, 2018

He found his place in the team last season in a midfield three alongside an anchor (Schneiderlin) and a presser (Gana) who would cover him when he made his runs forward. Obviously in a midfield 3 with Rooney and Gana he is nowhere near as effective.

I do like his enthusiasm to look forward and pass forward but his control, decision making and defensive nous are all questionable (only natural given his age). Given our other central midfield options however he is the best choice for sure although I'd like to see Klaasen given another go.

Unlike someone like Jon Joe Kenny however I have no doubt about Davies' talent, I think he just needs better coaching and he will be in and around our first team for many years to come.

Abraders · February 25, 2018

kenada_blue said:
Him, Rooney, Pickford, Walcott all play for me.

Everyone else can be binned off.

Rooney was abysmal yesterday.

Gana is a beast and probably first on the teamsheet bar Coleman

kenada_blue · February 25, 2018

Abraders said:
Rooney was abysmal yesterday.

Gana is a beast and probably first on the teamsheet bar Coleman

I'll give you them two as well.

toffeejack · February 25, 2018

Ash Woods said:
Lol at people calling him crap

Pathetic, get control of your emotions you bad meffs ffs

This. This is why our talented youngsters don't reach potential imo. Other clubs applaud what they do right but also what they do wrong and that offers encouragement.

Here I think the added pressure and constant negativity makes them go into their shell through fear. Probably why Rodwell turned into a crab.

PeregrineT · February 25, 2018

Davies was much improved yesterday, though he really faded in the second half. He definitely has the talent, but like most young players what he needs is consistency.

banno · February 25, 2018

Ash Woods said:
Lol at people calling him crap

Pathetic, get control of your emotions you bad meffs ffs

I need to control my emotions then

He works hard and runs about a lot but what does he offer on the ball, how difficult is it for him to control a ball, a drop of the shoulder by an opposition player doesn't gain a yard on him it gains 5 yards. I cannot see what he offers. He may be the best we have got but that does not mean he is good. Play him enough times and he will give us a city moment but that is outweighed by his bad moments 100 fold. He is not good enough for Everton. There, I said it so I must be a meff but my arguement is 'why do you think he is that good'? I just cannot see anything but a bog average player.

dannyboy · February 25, 2018

toffeejack said:
This. This is why our talented youngsters don't reach potential imo. Other clubs applaud what they do right but also what they do wrong and that offers encouragement.

Here I think the added pressure and constant negativity makes them go into their shell through fear. Probably why Rodwell turned into a crab.

Or they are just not that good. Why do people think every youngster that comes through the system is going to make the grade?

If you think the pressure is bad here then these players would simply never ever cope at any of the top 6. If Davies had put in the performances he has for us this year at a United/City/Liverpool team he probably wouldn't kick another ball any time soon.

In my eyes our support is probably too accommodating. We accept young players playing badly week in week out because of their age and the misguided belief they're talented. Right now, if Kenny and Davies had the career of Osman and Hibbert that would be an achievement.

Simon Buttle · February 25, 2018

banno said:
I need to control my emotions then

He works hard and runs about a lot but what does he offer on the ball, how difficult is it for him to control a ball, a drop of the shoulder by an opposition player doesn't gain a yard on him it gains 5 yards. I cannot see what he offers. He may be the best we have got but that does not mean he is good. Play him enough times and he will give us a city moment but that is outweighed by his bad moments 100 fold. He is not good enough for Everton. There, I said it so I must be a meff but my arguement is 'why do you think he is that good'? I just cannot see anything but a bog average player.

For me, i think there is defo a player in there somewhere, but i do think for someone playing in central midfield as a box to box player, his control and decision making are poor for a premier league player. Now that maybe down to age, but it's not like he has anyone playing along side him to teach him how to get any better which is the worrying thing for me. He needs some better coaching and to play along side a better partner than Gana or Sniderfraud, someone who can teach him how to be a proper midfielder.

Niapper · February 25, 2018

banno said:
I need to control my emotions then

He works hard and runs about a lot but what does he offer on the ball, how difficult is it for him to control a ball, a drop of the shoulder by an opposition player doesn't gain a yard on him it gains 5 yards. I cannot see what he offers. He may be the best we have got but that does not mean he is good. Play him enough times and he will give us a city moment but that is outweighed by his bad moments 100 fold. He is not good enough for Everton. There, I said it so I must be a meff but my arguement is 'why do you think he is that good'? I just cannot see anything but a bog average player.

Summed it up really

toffee-L · February 25, 2018

toffeejack said:
This. This is why our talented youngsters don't reach potential imo. Other clubs applaud what they do right but also what they do wrong and that offers encouragement.

Here I think the added pressure and constant negativity makes them go into their shell through fear. Probably why Rodwell turned into a crab.

I can't get behind this line of thinking. I don't see a massive difference in the way we treat young players compared with other teams. What I think is a big problem with how we treat young players is how dramatically many of our fans overrate them when they haven't done anything worth the praise and when they "find their level" they are dragged down by the same people who are disappointed that they haven't reached the insane heights they expected them too.

Take Jon Joe Kenny for example. For a spell over Christmas he seemed to win every single man of the match pole taken on here. There was even many people saying that when Coleman came back JJK should keep his place! Now this is clearly insane, especially looking back since Coleman has come back and proven he is far superior. The fact remains though that some people believed that Kenny, despite doing hardly anything, didn't deserve to lose his spot to Coleman. Kenny has simply found his level since, he isn't playing any worse now than he was during the spell when everyone was blindly praising him, it's just that Coleman has come back and reminded these same fans of how good he was.

Its happened so many times with so many players I'm continually surprised it still occurs.

dannyboy · February 25, 2018

toffee-L said:
I can't get behind this line of thinking. I don't see a massive difference in the way we treat young players compared with other teams. What I think is a big problem with how we treat young players is how dramatically many of our fans overrate them when they haven't done anything worth the praise and when they "find their level" they are dragged down by the same people who are disappointed that they haven't reached the insane heights they expected them too.

Take Jon Joe Kenny for example. For a spell over Christmas he seemed to win every single man of the match pole taken on here. There was even many people saying that when Coleman came back JJK should keep his place! Now this is clearly insane, especially looking back since Coleman has come back and proven he is far superior. The fact remains though that some people believed that Kenny, despite doing hardly anything, didn't deserve to lose his spot to Coleman. Kenny has simply found his level since, he isn't playing any worse now than he was during the spell when everyone was blindly praising him, it's just that Coleman has come back and reminded these same fans of how good he was.

Its happened so many times with so many players I'm continually surprised it still occurs.

It's mad. I doubt Liverpool fans spend their Sunday evenings wishing if only they'd given Jay Spearing more backing they'd have had a potential Ballon D'or winner. If a young player continuously fails to deliver then they shouldn't be playing games.

dannyboy · February 25, 2018

banno said:
I need to control my emotions then

He works hard and runs about a lot but what does he offer on the ball, how difficult is it for him to control a ball, a drop of the shoulder by an opposition player doesn't gain a yard on him it gains 5 yards. I cannot see what he offers. He may be the best we have got but that does not mean he is good. Play him enough times and he will give us a city moment but that is outweighed by his bad moments 100 fold. He is not good enough for Everton. There, I said it so I must be a meff but my arguement is 'why do you think he is that good'? I just cannot see anything but a bog average player.

This year has been extremely poor. His best games have come at home because he ran around and pressed a lot. You know it hasn't been going well when they're the best qualities you've shown.

toffee-L · February 25, 2018

dannyboy said:
It's mad. I doubt Liverpool fans spend their Sunday evenings wishing if only they'd given Jay Spearing more backing they'd have had a potential Ballon D'or winner. If a young player continuously fails to deliver then they shouldn't be playing games.

Perfect way of putting it. Some youngsters are given far too much slack. At the end of the day they deserve some leeway at the beginning so they develop but if they don't show the required standard then they don't deserve blind loyalty. I don't include Davies in this because I think he has shown something but if you give young players too long then you end up with Tony Hibbert with near 15 year Everton careers.

dannyboy · February 25, 2018

toffee-L said:
Perfect way of putting it. Some youngsters are given far too much slack. At the end of the day they deserve some leeway at the beginning so they develop but if they don't show the required standard then they don't deserve blind loyalty. I don't include Davies in this because I think he has shown something but if you give young players too long then you end up with Tony Hibbert with near 15 year Everton careers.

I think there's a chance Davies could make it too, but he'll have to play so much better than he has done since August. As you say though, it's the blind loyalty. "Coleman won't get his place back" because Kenny put in a few solid defensive displays. It was mad.