Hypothetical Martinez question

[Saint Domingo]

I suggest you look at exactly how MUCH money Moyes had to spend prior to the firesale after 2009. He had a very tidy ne spend for the period between 2002 and 2009...not elite spewnding levels but very respectable vis-a-vis other clubs in the PL.

And finished ahead of most of those clubs. In the same period Newcastle Portsmouth Spurs Villa we’re chucking money around all over the place. You can beat Moyes with some sticks but trying to make out he somehow had a decent budget to work with is staggering.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

More hits in Martinez's transfer record here than misses. Moyes nought well at the £4-7M level but wasted a lot of cash on utter mince like Kroldrup and Beattie and Bilyaletdinov....and bought way too many 'signings for the future at the £1-2M mark who never made it.

Not entirely sure I agree with on Martinez's transfer record, but I'll give you Moyes era punts. Worth noting that a few we let go under Moyes are now prem players of differing quality - Duffy, Mustaphi, and Dier.

Still, compared to past summer I'll give them both a free pass!

 

[bag a yoko]

I have the abiding memory of the team huddled around Eto'o before the game as he presumably attempted to come up with some method they could win with Martinez in charge.

 

[Thomasc]

Here's Thomas the blue again.

*waves*

*waves back at resident spambot*

 

[COYBL25]

Must be exhausting in your house mate.

‘Do you want cornflakes Dave’

- ‘No, under no circumstances are cornflakes the best breakfast option, Weetabix is clearly superior in every department. And what on Earth is this semi skimmed stuff..’

You should be a Viz character.

I believe the character Millie Tant was loosely based on him ?

 

[Jebus_lives]

More hits in Martinez's transfer record here than misses. Moyes nought well at the £4-7M level but wasted a lot of cash on utter mince like Kroldrup and Beattie and Bilyaletdinov....and bought way too many 'signings for the future at the £1-2M mark who never made it.

Krøldrup £5m
Beattie £6m

I think Moyes worked best when he was forced into action. His best signings were within the £2m-£4m mark after that he got confused.

Heard Lescott saying it took him 2 years to scout him then 2 weeks to sign him.

Where Martinez spent money I think he largely spent it well in Lukaku, McCarthy and Mori (Niasse was a howler*). He didn't do all that well with his £2m-£4m signings in the main.

*Before you start he was a Martinez signing and not some mythical board conspiracy to tarnish his record.

 

[rstevens]

I think we would have done better by keeping him and giving him the money koeman ****** up the wall. he showed he can do well in cup competitions as well. awful seasons but what we are experiencing now is worse. he also clearly loved being everton manager. just a shame we have some crap fans who dont have patience when it comes to building something special.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Yeah, I can imagine you with our 80s teams:

• Lost three cup finals to Liverpool
• Didn't win anything in 86, 88 and 89
• Had rubbish like Wayne Clarke and Neil McDonald playing for us
• Only won the ECWC final against Rapid Vienna

I didn’t see the 80s teams, but if you’re going from the era of 1984-1989, that is a period of 5 seasons. You’re basing Martinez being good here on one season, in which we moved from 6th place in 2012/13 to 5th place in 2013/14.

You’re completely neglecting the two seasons after the 2013/14 season when he managed to set a record for the least amount of home wins in Everton’s history.

 

[rstevens]

I didn’t see the 80s teams, but if you’re going from the era of 1984-1989, that is a period of 5 seasons. You’re basing Martinez being good here on one season, in which we moved from 6th place in 2012/13 to 5th place in 2013/14.

You’re completely neglecting the two seasons after the 2013/14 season when he managed to set a record for the least amount of home wins in Everton’s history.

maybe if the fans backed the team and the manager, the players would not be so scared to play at home? instead they had to play infront of boos and moaning and it clearly had an effect.

 

[TraffordBlue]

7th is nowhere. 5th is nowhere.

Gettng Everton playing football that wins a lot of matches and piles the points up to elite club levels is the measuring rod.

Moyes failed, Koeman failed, Martinez succeeded.

So if 7th and 5th are nowhere, then how did Martinez succeed? Because if 5th is nowhere then that's not elite club level either is it? Therefore only one of them managed it in any one season and that was Moyes with his 4th placed finish.

 

[Brendan Janus]

it would have been down to the lake I fear !

 

[GwladysBlue]

maybe if the fans backed the team and the manager, the players would not be so scared to play at home? instead they had to play infront of boos and moaning and it clearly had an effect.

lol Barca, Real, Atletico give their players abuse every single home game.

Maybe if the players looked like they give a rat’s arse we wouldn’t moan at them?

 

[mkrudden]

Robles
Alcaraz
Galloway
Funes Mori
McCarthy
Cleverley
Besic
McGeady
Atsu
Lennon
Kone
Traore
Niasse
Rodriguez

Just some of the utter mediocrity he signed. But yeah he wouldn’t have wasted the money..

Mate, alot of these were punts / free transfers because our transfer budget / wage offerings dictated such.

If he had £45m to spend on a midfielder, would he have gone out and bought Cleverley, Besic, McGeady, Atsu, Lennon?

If he had £27m to spend on a striker, would he have bought Niasse?

His punts were dictated by our limited finances and the need for a bigger squad for the EL after the absolute starking success of his first season.

 

[mkrudden]

7th is nowhere. 5th is nowhere.

Gettng Everton playing football that wins a lot of matches and piles the points up to elite club levels is the measuring rod.

Moyes failed, Koeman failed, Martinez succeeded.

I really don't see how this is a debate.

The point is to win games AND entertain. Martinez's first season is the only time we have done this since Kendall.

 

[mkrudden]

I can fairly confidently say we'd have been relegated either last season or this season if he was left in charge. The downward trajectory under him was alarming.

People don't seem to remember what it was actually like. There was no light at the end of the tunnel when he was here.

Seriously though, do football fans in general have long term memory issues? I mean, I actually do in general but not with football - it seems people completely rewrite the history books after 18 months or so.

No mate, you just write loads which provokes debate (excellent- the point of a forum) and then when someone seeks to have such a debate you leg it. Just like here:

Not in the slightest. Revisionist history from the FIFA generation because he has pace on that broken game I reckon, only reason I can think of as he's been pretty much exclusively bad. Hit and run then thump an aimless cross, usually miles away from anyone, over and over again.

Just isn't true though, as has been debated so many times. What's revisionism is you stating that no-one has succeeded in coming up with a compelling argument for the neutral that the lad is effective. You don't like him, as is your right, therefore it makes debating redundant because nothing I or other pro-Bolasie players state will change your mind.

Bolasie has an excellent first touch and is extremely competent and keeping the ball. Before his injury and countless times for Palace also used his pace to get his team up the pitch, from his box to the opponent's.

If you want some stats to back up that Bolasie isn't terrible, he averaged 0.31 assists per game. Barkley averaged 0.22 assists last season with far more opportunity to improve that average given he played 36 games (Bolasie played 13). He also averaged winning a tackle a game. Barkley: 0.72. In the games played, Bolasie's assists totalled 4. Barkley 8. Again, Barkley played in 60% more of the PL games than Bolasie did.

Is he inconsistent with his crossing? of course he is.
Is he a bad player? of course he isn't. He's a good, effective player.

Come on...

You're a sensationalist. One who is compelling with the nonsense you write sometimes however a sensationalist nonetheless.

Shame as I always quite enjoyed your ramblings.