Ross Barkley

[Duncan Disordely]

Exactly.

Wait, so although almost every other metric is at his best per 90 in the last 4 seasons, but he hasn't taken as ment players on your not happy?

Maybe he's just being smarter in his take-on's? His success rate is far higher this season.

 

[Duncan Disordely]

No mate. The new directive is: "I don’t need Ross on the halfway line having eight touches on the ball, we have enough players behind the ball."

That's not an abdication of defensive duties, that's just telling not to be fannying about with the ball in our own half

 

[davek]

Wait, so although almost every other metric is at his best per 90 in the last 4 seasons, but he hasn't taken as ment players on your not happy?

Maybe he's just being smarter in his take-on's? His success rate is far higher this season.

View attachment 35261

There's only two measures that matter: goals and assists. The rest is voodoo.

 

[davek]

That's not an abdication of defensive duties, that's just telling not to be fannying about with the ball in our own half

By definition, not wanting him behind the ball means means he's not tasking him with doing that and chasing defenders down.

If it meant what you say Koeman would have had to say "I need Ross on the halfway line getting the ball, we need more players behind the ball."

 

[collymcd]

No mate. The new directive is: "I don’t need Ross on the halfway line having eight touches on the ball, we have enough players behind the ball."

That's just simply not true.

If anything, Ross' upturn in form is largely due to the fact he is instructed to come deep and get touches on the ball around the halfway line. Freedom to move around the pitch suits Ross down to a tee which is finally why we're beginning to see signs of him taking games by the scruff of the neck.

Yes, he's been given freedom while we're in possession but this is clearly not at the cost of defensive shape and work. How many times have we seen him sprint back to track runners or put in sliding tackles before recent months?

I would say it's the opposite to how you see it. In previous years he was shunted as far away as possible from defensive responsibility but now it's just not the case.

 

[Zezti]

There's only two measures that matter: goals and assists. The rest is voodoo.

Only in a very limited view. There's more to football than that.

Think of Busquets for Barca: "You watch the game, you don't see Busquets. You watch Busquets, you see the whole game." - Vincente Del Bosque

Barkley's key passes stat shows he's becoming an engineer of moves. You can actually see that when he plays, when people get on his back for "taking too long on the ball", what they're missing is that he's waiting for the perfect pass. He might not get an assist for that pass, but more of those passes are ultimately turning into clear chances.

 

[davek]

That's just simply not true.

If anything, Ross' upturn in form is largely due to the fact he is instructed to come deep and get touches on the ball around the halfway line. Freedom to move around the pitch suits Ross down to a tee which is finally why we're beginning to see signs of him taking games by the scruff of the neck.

Yes, he's been given freedom while we're in possession but this is clearly not at the cost of defensive shape and work. How many times have we seen him sprint back to track runners or put in sliding tackles before recent months?

I would say it's the opposite to how you see it. In previous years he was shunted as far away as possible from defensive responsibility but now it's just not the case.

That's not how I see it, I'm directly quoting the manager's words. If that's not right then he's not seeing what you're seeing and vice versa.

I direct my comments to Barkley's changing style.

 

[Amw79]

There's only two measures that matter: goals and assists. The rest is voodoo.

Not dribbling stats? But I thought....you said.....about....

Never mind.

 

[davek]

Only in a very limited view. There's more to football than that.

Think of Busquets for Barca: "You watch the game, you don't see Busquets. You watch Busquets, you see the whole game." - Vincente Del Bosque

Barkley's key passes stat shows he's becoming an engineer of moves. You can actually see that when he plays, when people get on his back for "taking too long on the ball", what they're missing is that he's waiting for the perfect pass. He might not get an assist for that pass, but more of those passes are ultimately turning into clear chances.

It makes more sense to measure Busquets on pass completion rate and duels won because that's his game. When you measure Barkley's value you do it with assists provided and goals scored.

 

[davek]

Not dribbling stats? But I thought....you said.....about....

Never mind.

As an indicatorr of a player feeling more shackled and circumspect with what he can do when he gets the ball that stat was appropriate and very revealing, given how his number of 'take ons'/'dribbles' have fallen off the cliff.

It was his game...now it's been drummed out of him. He's a different, and for my money, less exciting and valuable player.

 

[TraffordBlue]

An Evertonian on TalkSport then reckoned Barkley was poor for 75 minutes on Saturday, giving the ball away etc. Not sure what game he was watching to be honest.

 

[Amw79]

As an indicatorr of a player feeling more shackled and circumspect with what he can do when he gets the ball that stat was appropriate and very revealing, given how his number of 'take ons'/'dribbles' have fallen off the cliff.

It was his game...now it's been drummed out of him. He's a different, and for my money, less exciting and valuable player.

So other stats do matter then. As you were.

 

[Zezti]

It makes more sense to measure Busquets on pass completion rate and duels won because that's his game. When you measure Barkley's value you do it with assists provided and goals scored.

I wasn't talking about pass completion and duels won. I'm talking about a key player who can create goals before the goal is scored.
Think about it, the goal scorer gets the goal, the one who last passed to him gets the assist but what about the one who beats his man, gets into space, waits for the most optimal pass and passes to the future assister? Because that's what Barkley is doing, and doing it well. Players like that are hard to come by and are invaluable.

Needs to work on his shooting though.

 

[davek]

So other stats do matter then. As you were.

They dont matter as much as goals and assists.

There's a definite hierarchy to stats and stuff like '% of successful 5 yard passes in the final third of the pitch" are utter bunkum fit only for nerds.

 

[collymcd]

That's not how I see it, I'm directly quoting the manager's words. If that's not right then he's not seeing what you're seeing and vice versa.

I direct my comments to Barkley's changing style.

What did Koeman say mate? You don't need to find the exact quote but what was the gist?

I read two separate Barkley interviews recently where he stated that he's been given more responsibility and he's also been given freedom to roam. That's in line what I think I'm seeing on the pitch. It's also exactly why I think he's improved and improving.