Moutinho - all talk in here please.

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bluebastardo said:
We have 11 players on the pitch. We don't need one man to do it all, but seriously, I admire your loyalty to the lad, but there would be a lot of names before him on my 'saw a great player today' list.
Doing it in Portugal, and doing it in the Premiership might be a little different.
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Of course there are better players out there. But a lot more expensive also.

Still he'd be an improvement on the squad we have right now.

He could be like Scholes, I'd put my money on it.

About doing it in Portugal, I think the latest record between english and portuguese sides shows that the big three (Sporting, Benfica and Porto) can match most of the english clubs, apart the top 3/4. And from these top 4, I shall mention Liverpool was knocked out of the CL by Benfica, Arsenal has won and lost matches against Porto and Chelsea didn't have a walk in the park with tham also.

If we pass to the second string of clubs in England, look at Bolton, Boro, Everton, Newcastle who got knocked out.

Portsmouth against Guimaraes, decide in extra time.

English game is faster but also allows more space to play.
 
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England is clearly the better League, that is a well known. Other than La Liga, it's probably the best in Europe at this moment in time. Anyone can win in one off games, as Liverpool have proven over the last few years and Spurs througout there history.

Moutinho does have to prove that he can do it week in week out in a bigger League, and I'm sure he will. He's a good player, and it's was hilarious seeing some Evertonians trying to write him off as a nothing player on one performance.

I honestly don't see him as an improvement on a fully fit Arteta to be honest, who can do everthing Moutinho can do and more, aswell as being slightly bigger and physically able.
 
ToxtethBlue said:
England is clearly the better League, that is a well known. Other than La Liga, it's probably the best in Europe at this moment in time. Anyone can win in one off games, as Liverpool have proven over the last few years and Spurs througout there history.

Moutinho does have to prove that he can do it week in week out in a bigger League, and I'm sure he will. He's a good player, and it's was hilarious seeing some Evertonians trying to write him off as a nothing player on one performance.

I honestly don't see him as an improvement on a fully fit Arteta to be honest, who can do everthing Moutinho can do and more, aswell as being slightly bigger and physically able.
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Can Arteta play 50 matches a year always at full steam?

Can Arteta be cover for the players around him in defensive duties?

Can Arteta run up and down the pitch for 90 minutes?

Does he like to trail his opponents?

I think on the defensive department Moutinho is clearly an improvement, without losing the ability to retain possession and the ability to deliever the ball well and still arranging time to get into the box.

If you tell me Arteta has better technical attributes, I can concede that he has better dribbling ability and a probably a better long pass.

He's bigger? Yes, slightly. But Moutinho is more aggressive, marks his defensive area better and has a higher work rate.

Can Fellaini play the ball around like Moutinho? Does he win as many balls as Moutinho? Does he run as much as Moutinho? Can he position himself as well as Moutinho? I'd say no to all.

Moutinho's intelligence allows him to play against any opponent. There aren't many players in the game that can read and understand the movement and marking. He's no Messi, allright. He never was and he'll never be.

But we're not talking about Messi as standard for an Everton squad player, are we?

The English League is the most exciting, I admit.

Is it the best in the World? Doubt it, mate.

Right now, La Liga has a higher number of very good sides. The top 3 players in the wolrd play in La Liga.

Pull the top 4 out of the EPL and you have a pretty ordinary competition. Still better than portuguese league, I don't question it, but most of the teams wouldn't have a walk in the park against a top table portuguese side. And clearly they wouldn't be a match for any of the top spanish sides.
 
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sotnas said:
Can Arteta play 50 matches a year always at full steam?

Can Arteta be cover for the players around him in defensive duties?

Can Arteta run up and down the pitch for 90 minutes?

Does he like to trail his opponents?

I think on the defensive department Moutinho is clearly an improvement, without losing the ability to retain possession and the ability to deliever the ball well and still arranging time to get into the box.

If you tell me Arteta has better technical attributes, I can concede that he has better dribbling ability and a probably a better long pass.

He's bigger? Yes, slightly. But Moutinho is more aggressive, marks his defensive area better and has a higher work rate.

Can Fellaini play the ball around like Moutinho? Does he win as many balls as Moutinho? Does he run as much as Moutinho? Can he position himself as well as Moutinho? I'd say no to all.

Moutinho's intelligence allows him to play against any opponent. There aren't many players in the game that can read and understand the movement and marking. He's no Messi, allright. He never was and he'll never be.

But we're not talking about Messi as standard for an Everton squad player, are we?

The English League is the most exciting, I admit.

Is it the best in the World? Doubt it, mate.

Right now, La Liga has a higher number of very good sides. The top 3 players in the wolrd play in La Liga.

Pull the top 4 out of the EPL and you have a pretty ordinary competition. Still better than portuguese league, I don't question it, but most of the teams wouldn't have a walk in the park against a top table portuguese side. And clearly they wouldn't be a match for any of the top spanish sides.
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Mikel Arteta - 2008/2009 on Vimeo

Have a look at that video and tell me Arteta can't defend. You won't, because he clearly can, his positioning is good, he's tenacious and he does alot of intercepting in the middle of the park. Is he a world class defender, no, but then neither is Moutinho.

You are getting confused with the unfit Arteta trying to get up to speed, the Arteta we are seeing is nothing like the Arteta we saw last season. He's struggling with the pace and he's not fit. This is a player who's missed around 10 months of football.

Can Arteta run all game? I'm sure he can, he's a hardworking player, but I'd argue it shows the difference between the two players. Arteta likes to sit and hold, Moutinho is very much and box to box midfielder.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take Moutinho here right now, he's be an excellent addition to the side. If Moyes was to play three in the middle of the park then we could play Fellaini, Arteta and Moutinho together and have one of the best midfield's in the League.

But I can't see Moyes doing that, he likes to play with a second striker which means Moutinho would be shunted outwide. And for me, as good as he is, he isn't a 15-16 million wide player. Nor is he the type of wide player we need at this moment in time, we need pace.

As for the League's, I didn't call it the best, I consider La Liga to be the strongest at this moment in time.
 

Toxteth, the common opinion on Moutinho is that he is a box to box.

Personally I think he's a midfield that can play with equal effectiveness in the middle of the park with any sort of mission.

Tell him to be a box to box and he will. Tell him to be the anchorman and he will. Tell him to play the number 10 position and he will.

Last match you could watch part of what he can do. When he was told to roam he caused problems and made Osman to man mark him. When Sporting needed to defend and explore the counter you saw him with a knife in his teeth chasing opponents and the ball.

I don't think he would compete with Arteta for a place, I think he would add value to Arteta's style of play.

Arteta wants to go up... Moutinho will provide cover for him. Arteta wants to sit...Moutinho will do the running up and down the pitch. You want someone to help your full back? Moutinho will do it.

I never said Arteta couldn't defend (asking if he will provide cover doesn't mean necessarly he can't defend) I said that Moutinho will do it better because he is a smart player with very good perception of the game, with a great engine and energy.

The picture of Arteta that I have tells me he's a clever player who likes to have the ball, with very good offense ability but not all that hardworking. He prefers to control his position than close down on the opponent. Will he read the game to go for the rescue of his fullback? Not saying he won't, but the hand full of matches where I watched him never showed this in his game. Sometimes he lets himself in the shadow of the game (even in his best days). I remember him operating on the wing and I remember we discussed Arteta's best position. I told at the time that I'd put him in the middle in a 3 man midfield or on the left wing like Pienaar is used.

Clearly you know Arteta a lot better than I do, but I do know Moutinho a lot better than you do so we may be talking rubbish comparing them both.

As I said Moutinho could well be a similar player to Scholes. Even the goals in Scholes game could be replicated in Moutinho's, given the time and the hard work in training.
 

sotnas said:
As I said Moutinho could well be a similar player to Scholes. Even the goals in Scholes game could be replicated in Moutinho's, given the time and the hard work in training.
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I'm not sure Moutinho has the tenacity to warrant that comparison.

As for goals, having just had a quick look. 18 goals in 150+ games for Sporting, in the Portuguese League.

How much did they want? £18m/22m? NEXT!
 
I'd rather have Osman. And so would all you if his name was Osmonio and had European flair ;

osmonio.jpg
 

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