Squad Goldmine

[Zatara]

Holden absolutely lit up when he talked about him mate, could see that HE was the player that got him over the loss of Rooney, he said a few things about that as well - can't really share it though but he wasn't over the moon to say the least lol. Remember though for a few years after was massively looking forward to this young lad when he arrived - Vaughan was the one that did for me with going to earyl with players though, shows that no matter what talent you have if luck goes against you then it means nowt

I think against West Ham away many years ago we had Dunne and Ball in defence and i was with my Dad saying Ball looked like the new England LB for the next decade (unsy may have played as well, cant remember). I think Ball and Vaughan were done by injuries and Dunne with the ale but all of them with a bit of luck could have been top players.

Always hoped hibbert could have improved going forwards as well as he was top notch defensively, you always need solid defenders though and hopefully Kenny can be our new hibbert but with the attacking drive as well which he showed with his assist.

The difference with this batch i think is that there are just so many of them and when each has had game time overall they could have been a 25 year old foreigner and we'd have said they had at least an average game...bodes well at least for squd depth.

When we look at a Frank De Boer at Ajax who has brought through kids out of necessity i think its nit unreasonable to hope we could see a fair few given some chances.

 

[mightymoyes]

100% this mate

Nowadays wpould G Neville have been given a chance when Parker got injured or would they just have had some 26yo international their stepping in
Same when they sold Hughes and Scholes stepped up to the role, nowadays they would have 2-3 internationals ahead of him

Only Giggs out that team would have been nailed on to break through no matter what at the age he did, the others who knows what would have happened ha dthey come around the way football is now. but can feel pretty sure that their is no way that Beckham, Scholes, G Neville and Giggs and Butt would have all broken into the team anywhere close to the age they did at

to be fair ferguson let hughes, ince and kanchelskis all go because he had the likes of beckham, scholes and butt ready to step up. good management which is what our next manager will have to do. and we're only letting pienaar, osman and gibson go, hardly in the same league!

 

[bluestevon]

@MoutsGoat @bluestevon

I think if we look at the squad as it is now theres not a position where we are covered for the next 2 seasons with quality depth bar right wing with Deulofeu and Lennon.

The 3 major needs we have are at GK LW and FW where we really have no competition for Robles or Lukaku and have seen random players at LW. Ironically none of the young players coming through play in any of these positions which is a shame (although Dowell could play on the LW position it seems).

What we DO have are a number of players who can play at full back. Coleman has had zero competition and really neither has baines (bar an injury prone oviedo) so there is an opportunity here for 2 squad places to be filled. We also have Jagielka who has one or two seasons left and thats possibly another position open for a 3rd or 4th choice to come through and push for a start.

We seem to have plenty of DMs and CMs coming through which is timely as barry is now 35 and we only have Besic and McCarthy there for the centre (if barkley stays further up) so possibly 2 more squad places to open up.

I'm not saying these guys will take the first 11 by storm BUT could prove to be hungry squad players such as UTD had with Butt and Neville which would be a massive asset to us over the course of many seasons.

There will be money spent but hopefully thats on starting superstars and there are spaces for the kids to compete with them and develop alongside top players.

Thing is Zat, we go out with a new manager and buy say someone like Blind then it would immediately kill the chances of any young lb's/cb's getting into the squad.

Similarly we buy a couple of vesratile and quality players in the middle - then it kills the chances of all thos eyoung midfielders getting into the team

Look at some of your own earleir posts on the matter mate, your championing strengthening the spine of the team, as it happens doing so will massively reduce the chances of the young lads getting games, you can't have it both ways mate

we have like 4 very promising young centre mids at the academy level, NO chance on earth more than one of them is going to have ahcance of making the squad this seaosn, same with the defence mate, maybe 1 will have a chance to feature in anything more than a meaningless dead rubber type game

 

[bluestevon]

to be fair ferguson let hughes, ince and kanchelskis all go because he had the likes of beckham, scholes and butt ready to step up. good management which is what our next manager will have to do. and we're only letting pienaar, osman and gibson go, hardly in the same league!

Ferguson sold Kanchelskis because they had a massive falling out by all accounts mate, nothing to do with Beckham coming through really, without that bust up no chance on earth United would have gotten rid of him when they did as he was one of their best players and at his very peak

Another thing was when they got their chance they didn't just do well they did amazingly well

Ltes face it though as Goat said it was a once in a lifetime scenario with that many not just good, but world class players coming through an academy at once (Scholes, Neville, Giggs, Beckham would have gotten into nearly any side in the world at their peaks)

 

[Zatara]

Pennington got pulled all over the park by Vardy.

Anyway, I wont continue, I will let you dream, but I stand by my words, not 1 of the players you name above will play more than 5 times next season, unless Unsworth is given the job.

Hard to judge. Pennington gets taken apart by a massively on form Vardy whilst Davies gets motm against a disaster of a norwich team.

Youre right about Unsworth, hed play them where he could in a way Cocu has brought through his old u19 players for PSV.

The romantic side of me would love unsworth to get the job full time but he couldnt attract the key players necessary to have a stable spine of the team. Perhaps a superstar director of football and a heck of a lot of money would do the trick....who knows.

But i think after seeing the game and having read the reports from the coaches moshiri will hopefully make it part of a new managers mandate to integrate the youth. Thats why we need a FDB coach type rather than a manager like koeman.

Hopefully the new guy also promotes unsworth and others into assistant manager roles to help bring through players.

As for no more than 5 games do you mean starts or just participating in 5 games?

 

[Neiler]

Theres been a few articles on mourinho over the yeaes and how he builds squads. The 1st thing he does is look at the spine GK/CB/DM/CM/CF and bring in solid consistent players.

When we look at our squad there arent any players we could pick out and say they are too 4 quality just yet although on their day perhaps Stones,Barkley and Lukaku. We have alot of DMs also so i think the other 4 positions in the spine need atrengthening.

As for Garbutt and Oviedo, its a conundrum as LB we will have them + Baines, Connolly and perhaps Galloway as well. So 5 LBs is 3 too many, Amavi is also top quality but we wont loom at him with so many players there already.

Well i dont want Mourhino mate, i think im the only person on the forum who doesnt but there you go.

I'd also disagree when you look at our squad there arent many players who wouldnt get into a top 4 team. Like i said earlier Leicester and Spurs proved this season that its sometimes not about big names on squad sheets, but rather players being coached to their potential and collective unity in purpose. Would i see a fair chunk of our squad getting games for Leicester and Spurs - without doubt. I would be very carefull not to throw the baby out with the bathwater now we have a bit of wonga. The need for whole sale player aquisitions is 4-6 - given we need a new keeper.

As for LB; Bainsey is getting on and still my no 1 but all things pass, he needs a big season next season to hold a first team slot, which is what you want. Oviedo offers versatility and energy, Garbutt has done it to - let that core three fight it out and see who comes out on top. Galloway is a left sided centre back for my money - if ive ever seen one, similar to how Lescott and Jags started out mixing it at full back before getting their wings at centre half. Connolly still a wait and see for me, im not sure his postition is exactly "set".

We need to get out of this penny picnhing mentality that been ingrained in us for over a decade or getting rid of squad players, or younger players with potential. If our ambition is to be playing twice a week for a season, and on four fronts then squad depth is vital, Utd are an example they must have played about 10 diffferent full-backs this year and have unearthed a few gems.

 

[mightymoyes]

Well i dont want Mourhino mate, i think im the only person on the forum who doesnt but there you go.

I'd also disagree when you look at our squad there arent many players who wouldnt get into a top 4 team, like i said earlier Leicester and Spurs porved this season that its sometimes not about big names on squad sheets but rather players being coached to their potential and collective unity in purpose, would i see a fair chunck of our squad getting games for Leicester and Spurs - without doubt. I would be very ccareful not to throw the baby our with the bathwater now we have a bit of wonga, the need for whole sale player aquisitions is 4-6 - given we need a new keeper.

As for LB Bainsey is getting on still my no 1 but all things pass, he needs a big season next season to hold a first team slot, which is what you want Oviedo offers versatility and energy, Garbutt has done it to - let that core three fight it out and see who comes out on top. galloway is a left sided centre back for my money, if ive ever seen one, similar to how Lescott started out mixing it at full back before getting his wings. Connolly still a wait and see for me, im not sure his postition is exactly "set".

connolly will come out on top there, garbutt and oviedo arent up it. hopefully baines can put his injury troubles behind him and we can get another couple of seasons out of him.

 

[Neiler]

connolly will come out on top there, garbutt and oviedo arent up it. hopefully baines can put his injury troubles behind him and we can get another couple of seasons out of him.

Thats a big shout mate, Oviedo has proved the difference in games against CL top 4 clubs, Garbutt has starred away from home in europe against a relatively big club.

Connolly, well he made his debut really, not belittling the lad but ...................

 

[Zatara]

Thing is Zat, we go out with a new manager and buy say someone like Blind then it would immediately kill the chances of any young lb's/cb's getting into the squad.

Similarly we buy a couple of vesratile and quality players in the middle - then it kills the chances of all thos eyoung midfielders getting into the team

Look at some of your own earleir posts on the matter mate, your championing strengthening the spine of the team, as it happens doing so will massively reduce the chances of the young lads getting games, you can't have it both ways mate

we have like 4 very promising young centre mids at the academy level, NO chance on earth more than one of them is going to have ahcance of making the squad this seaosn, same with the defence mate, maybe 1 will have a chance to feature in anything more than a meaningless dead rubber type game

Well, i think we need:

GK / CB / CM / LW / CF

None of the kids coming through are GK / LW or CF players leaving CB and CM.

At CB we have Jags who is 34, Stones and Mori. If we are looking long term then remove Jags. Stones should be a likely starter and i think we need a top CB next to him with immense leadership and organizational qualities. I also have a feeling Mori will be moved on as he wont want to be 3rd or 4th choice if this player is brought in -- this could leave 2 positions at CB available.

At DM we have Barry who is 35 as well as McCarthy and Besic. In CM we have Cleverley....i would sign a top CM player so looking long term we would have Cleverley as a utility player and McCarthy/Besic competing for the DM position. Whilst that is 4 players for 2 positions theres usually injuries and suspensions here so we could do with 2 more players.

I think this would be healthy competition and if a player such as Davies is good enough he would put in performances to get games....

 

[mightymoyes]

Thats a big shout mate, Oviedo has proved the difference in games against CL top 4 clubs, Garbutt has starred away from home in europe against a relatively big club.

Connolly, well he made his debut really, not belittling the lad but ...................

that was 2 yrs ago, dont thinks hes been the same since the broken leg.
garbutt will have a championship career at best im afraid

 

[JustOpp]

I tend to lean towards the side of @MoutsGoat in that you're lucky to have one player per age group who eventually "makes it", although I do think the counterargument is also interesting:

At what point of return is the impact of a player brought in via transfer negligible compared to that of an academy player who is thought to be "not quite good enough?"

To put it another way: of the eight u21 players who "aren't good enough," is the implication legitimate that they would cost a club points if they replaced a player like Bryan Oviedo the past two seasons? Or any other struggling PL player?

 

[Zatara]

Ferguson sold Kanchelskis because they had a massive falling out by all accounts mate, nothing to do with Beckham coming through really, without that bust up no chance on earth United would have gotten rid of him when they did as he was one of their best players and at his very peak

Another thing was when they got their chance they didn't just do well they did amazingly well

Ltes face it though as Goat said it was a once in a lifetime scenario with that many not just good, but world class players coming through an academy at once (Scholes, Neville, Giggs, Beckham would have gotten into nearly any side in the world at their peaks)

If Davies was 20 or 21 we would all be thinking he would be first choice next season. He really has been outstanding in his gametime.

However as hes just 17 i think were discounting him a bit but i think if he can keep to this level of performance he could be a fixture on the bench at least next season.

 

[Neiler]

Well, i think we need:

GK / CB / CM / LW / CF

None of the kids coming through are GK / LW or CF players leaving CB and CM.

At CB we have Jags who is 34, Stones and Mori. If we are looking long term then remove Jags. Stones should be a likely starter and i think we need a top CB next to him with immense leadership and organizational qualities. I also have a feeling Mori will be moved on as he wont want to be 3rd or 4th choice if this player is brought in -- this could leave 2 positions at CB available.

At DM we have Barry who is 35 as well as McCarthy and Besic. In CM we have Cleverley....i would sign a top CM player so looking long term we would have Cleverley as a utility player and McCarthy/Besic competing for the DM position. Whilst that is 4 players for 2 positions theres usually injuries and suspensions here so we could do with 2 more players.

I think this would be healthy competition and if a player such as Davies is good enough he would put in performances to get games....

be interested to hear some names mate, who do you rate or like to see as the ins?

 

[Boss_Blue]

Now we are in the lookout for a new manager and can see the amazing young players coming through I think it's worth evaluating the squad who the new boss has to work with.

23 and not done well at fulham + we seem to have better options?

There seems to be about 8-10 players who have a chance to come through which is incredible.

Textbook Zat.

 

[Zatara]

Well i dont want Mourhino mate, i think im the only person on the forum who doesnt but there you go.

I'd also disagree when you look at our squad there arent many players who wouldnt get into a top 4 team. Like i said earlier Leicester and Spurs proved this season that its sometimes not about big names on squad sheets, but rather players being coached to their potential and collective unity in purpose. Would i see a fair chunk of our squad getting games for Leicester and Spurs - without doubt. I would be very carefull not to throw the baby out with the bathwater now we have a bit of wonga. The need for whole sale player aquisitions is 4-6 - given we need a new keeper.

As for LB; Bainsey is getting on and still my no 1 but all things pass, he needs a big season next season to hold a first team slot, which is what you want. Oviedo offers versatility and energy, Garbutt has done it to - let that core three fight it out and see who comes out on top. Galloway is a left sided centre back for my money - if ive ever seen one, similar to how Lescott and Jags started out mixing it at full back before getting their wings at centre half. Connolly still a wait and see for me, im not sure his postition is exactly "set".

We need to get out of this penny picnhing mentality that been ingrained in us for over a decade or getting rid of squad players, or younger players with potential. If our ambition is to be playing twice a week for a season, and on four fronts then squad depth is vital, Utd are an example they must have played about 10 diffferent full-backs this year and have unearthed a few gems.

@mightymoyes

i would like to see baines back to his best but he and coleman have been poor to average for 2 seasons now. Oviedo or even mattioni could be world class but are always injured and you need players to be fit...

Garbutt starts with a clean slate under a new manager and i like him but hes been awful at fulham by all accounts which is a worry and is now 23 so no kid.

For me, the RB position is there for the taking. Perhaps not to oust Coleman but at least to be competition for him and that could be kenny or connolly. I think connolly could be a very important player for ys juat as phil neville was for Man Utd. He can play a number of positions and so even if he doesnt become 1st choice he would be ideal to have on the bench.

If oviedo and garbutt are moved on then i can see both connolly and kenny making an impact next season.

 

[Goat]

The interesting thing with our squad is that we have 2 waves of youth now...

Deulofeu, Stones,Besic,Barkley,Lukaku

These are the 1st wave like Giggs was the first young player to come through in that group at UTD. Of course 4 of ours are bought in but they are all 21-23 years old.

The next wave of course are 17-21 and theres perhaps 10 of them of which 5 or 6 have had minutes and all done fine.

If we can have a few Nicky Butt /Phil Neville types to beef up the squad ad a couple of outstanding players as well i will be very happy.

You say we have 2 waves of youth and in the first wave only 1 player came through our academy.

Even in the lower age groups its littered with bought players, Holgate, Galloway, Hennen to name a few.

Dunno why we cant just marvel at how good Tom Davies was and leave it at that.