Kieran Dowell

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If Martinez doesn't go I hope we don't see him this season, the toxic atmosphere won't be good for the lad. Same as any of the other kids we have in our golden generation.
 

catcherintherye said:
I don't really think anyone is putting any pressure on him whatsoever.
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You're wrong mate. There was a reason for this;



And it's this;









I could go on and on.

Expectation and pressure go hand in hand.

catcherintherye said:
The Rashford argument kind of contradicts what you are saying. He's been thrown in, has done very well. I'm all for cautious steps, but sometimes a bit of meritocracy doesn't go amiss.
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Does it?

He was thrown in - yes, yes he was. Manchester United as a football club didn't hype him prior at every opportunity prior.

Even now, 5 days ago, Manchester United's manager is saying Rashford isn't ready for the first team;

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...tball-news/man-utd-rashford-van-gaal-11222470

Van Gaal is, as you'd expect - doing everything he can do to play down the expectation because, expectation to any young lad is never a benefit.

Us? Well do do stuff like this.

upload_2016-4-26_14-37-40-png.21753
 
Can't wait to boo him after his first misplaced pass

"BOOOOO 'koff Dowell lad! Fought yoo woz ment to be boss lad?! BOOOOOOOOO!!"
 
As I recall did not Rooney get his first chance when just 18? Plus guys, you can shoot me down now but seeing those clips made me think of Man U's Beckham when he was of that age.
 
catcherintherye said:
Not trying to knock you here mate, but other than Martinez has anyone described him as such? Or have they described his goals that way?
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His clubs first team manager has.
His current manager, Unsworth has.
His club through every significant media platform has - including TV.

Again - this isn't a one off "Look at these 3 goals".

They've been excessively promoting this lad now all year - to whose benefit?
 

GrandOldTeam said:
You're wrong mate. There was a reason for this;



And it's this;









I could go on and on.

Expectation and pressure go hand in hand.



Does it?

He was thrown in - yes, yes he was. Manchester United as a football club didn't hype him at every opportunity prior.

Even now, 5 days ago, Manchester United's manager is saying Rashford isn't ready for the first team;

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...tball-news/man-utd-rashford-van-gaal-11222470

Van Gaal is, as you'd expect - doing everything he can do to play down the expectation because, expectation to any young lad is never a benefit.

Us? Well do do stuff like this.

upload_2016-4-26_14-37-40-png.21753
Click to expand...


Martinez speaks very highly of everyone. I think there is an issue with that for sure and you have to take everything with a pinch of salt. That's his style, Van Gaal has a different style.

The twitter comments look like fans. I can assure you that United fans are exactly the same re Rashford. I think part of the issue is that anger towards Martinez is being played out with Dowell as a bit of an avatar for the discontent. I'm not sure Martinez's positivity is linked to the fans desperation really.

Anyway having watched him, and as I said in the youth team thread, I think he's as good as any option we have in our first team currently. He is the only player, at the club or on loan I would say that for, and I include Browning and Galloway in that too. If we signed Yarmalenko, and got Deulofeu/Barkley fit and up and running again then I'd obviously reconsider. He's definitely not a saviour and I'm certainly not going to start banging the "Dowell has to play" drum but it's my opinion that he would be a useful option.
 
GrandOldTeam said:
His clubs first team manager has.
His current manager, Unsworth has.
His club through every significant media platform has - including TV.

Again - this isn't a one off "Look at these 3 goals".

They've been excessively promoting this lad now all year - to whose benefit?
Click to expand...

I think there are different things in that though. Martinez bigs up everyone, at times to point of stupidity.
Unsworth is very positive too, however I think he gets the balance right. I have seen him be very critical. I also think (most importantly) on the training ground he can be quite hard on them.

The clubs output, in all honesty is quite minimal compared to other clubs. We also have the issue that he has scored on 4 or 5 different weeks spectacular goals from outside of the box. If you are going to provide minimal highlights and reaction that centre's around the goals, inevitably that will be focussed on.

Nothing you say is wrong, and I agree it is problematic, I suppose I just don't think it's a conspiracy to "excessively promote". I just think it's more a consequence of;
1) A desperate fanbase
2) A manager who's positivity lacks any degree of realism (for all players)
3) A clubs output that focusses largely on goals
4) A young lad who has scored a number of terrific goals.
 
IMO he should not be put out on loan, give him a chance now. Howard Kendall debuted at 17 years, Colin Harvey at 18 was thrown on by Harry at the San Siro. If you are good enough?????????
 

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
In my opinion, the problem is less the club backing the young players and more the fan base being so willing to turn on young players if they aren't amazing every single week

I have no problem with the club building up the younger players. It gives the impression that you can be a young player at Everton and get a genuine chance, which will only entice better young players to sign with our academy over other clubs

What we need is for supporters to back the players and be patient with them if they aren't pulling up trees every single week
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Shane Duffy is crap.
 
catcherintherye said:
The clubs output, in all honesty is quite minimal compared to other clubs.
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Do you track all Premier League club digital activity?

I do, part of my day job.

As an example - 3 Facebook updates to Dowell alone in the past 24 hours. You will not find another Premier League Football Club who posted 3 Facebook Updates on a single player in the U21s in under 24 hours.

Excessive.

catcherintherye said:
We also have the issue that he has scored on 4 or 5 different weeks spectacular goals from outside of the box. If you are going to provide minimal highlights and reaction that centre's around the goals, inevitably that will be focussed on.

Nothing you say is wrong, and I agree it is problematic, I suppose I just don't think it's a conspiracy to "excessively promote". I just think it's more a consequence of;
1) A desperate fanbase
2) A manager who's positivity lacks any degree of realism (for all players)
3) A clubs output that focusses largely on goals
4) A young lad who has scored a number of terrific goals.
Click to expand...

Conspiracy? Behave.

Ineptitude, with I suspect, an effort to peddle content that doesn't invite negative sentiment. There's a reason why there's no Martinez post match comments on Facebook... Last 10 Facebook updates;

Dowell
Hillsborough
Dowell
Dowell
Wembley
George Shaw
Alan Ball
U21s
EITC
Labone

I'll leave it at this;

There's no benefit to lauding and overhyping an 18 year old - it inevitably increases expectation.
 
ilikecheese said:
When this kid is playing in the Championship next season @Mikey_Fitzgerald will be lamenting what could have been.
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He may very well be on loan in The Championship next season and doing well for himself

I'd rather back the young players than write them off

We could honestly have our own Class of 92 with this current batch of youngsters

It's why I hope the next manager we get has developing them as a core part of his gameplan
 
GrandOldTeam said:
You're wrong mate. There was a reason for this;



And it's this;









I could go on and on.

Expectation and pressure go hand in hand.



Does it?

He was thrown in - yes, yes he was. Manchester United as a football club didn't hype him prior at every opportunity prior.

Even now, 5 days ago, Manchester United's manager is saying Rashford isn't ready for the first team;

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...tball-news/man-utd-rashford-van-gaal-11222470

Van Gaal is, as you'd expect - doing everything he can do to play down the expectation because, expectation to any young lad is never a benefit.

Us? Well do do stuff like this.

upload_2016-4-26_14-37-40-png.21753
Click to expand...


utd give their young academy stars a go in first team to show what they can do, we just talk about it.
 

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