Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[AndyC]

Weird timing for Kenwright to publically throw his support behind the manager. Two losses this week and the noise will be unbearable. Better to not say anything at all.

The trouble with BK, as blue as he undoubtedly is, is that he's as big an idealist as El Bob himself.

And now that we have a serious, serious businessman at the helm, or close to being stupid the helm, we need to change from romantic idealism to hard-nosed pragmatism.

 

[Boss_Blue]

Arteta, Pienaar and Chill

Kinky

 

[AndyC]

Not really. Merely an opinion that winning the cup and beating the RS would be difficult, but would convince the decision makers ,thats the board and Moshiri, to stick with Martinez, IF there is any doubt about that anyway. I think he's safe until at least Christmas and the start to next season, and comings and goings in the summer are whats important.

Behave, there can be no way on Fullers Earth that he's safe till at least Christmas, no way.

I'd go so far as to suggest that if that were to be the case, there might be a substantial drop off in ST sales.

In the pre-Premiership days and going back as long as I can remember, Evertonians were not averse to showing their discontent by occasionally voting with their feet and not attending games. I'm not saying that was a correct course of action, but blind faith is also not correct as it can lead to/breed a degree of complacency within a club.

The fan base being invigorated to buy STs', merchandise, away game tickets etc comes from positivity both on and off the field, and tangible progress in both results and style of performance... elements currently lacking from the persona of Everton FC.

Now voting with our feet would not impact financially next season thanks to the monster tv revenue streams, but I doubt Mr.Moshiri and his management team would relish chunks of empty seats every game at GP.

 

[Bobs]

The trouble with BK, as blue as he undoubtedly is, is that he's as big an idealist as El Bob himself.

And now that we have a serious, serious businessman at the helm, or close to being stupid the helm, we need to change from romantic idealism to hard-nosed pragmatism.

Don't agree. I think you like most of the media are confusing what martinez says with reality. If he was an idealist he'd have given our youth players a chance instead he just calls players who aren't young, young.
If he was an idealist he wouldn't play the same system every week and call it flexibility. If he was an idealist he wouldn't talk about having a fantastic squad and play the same players every week. Etc. Etc.
To be honest I think he's one of the most result driven non project managers in the league which would be fine if we won the odd game.

 

[Joey66]

BK hardly going to annouce he is going is he with the semi final on Sat - let's see what results we get towards the end of the season , and the fans reaction at the last home game?

 

[bcblue1878]

Did I actually hear him right in his interview after the game "we are still competing in two competitions" - what the actual ****!!! For the first time I now find myself regularly checking on here, Sky Sports News then on The Echo site to see if he's either walked or been given the big E!
I dread to think what's going to happen on Wednesday night!

 

[Wat Tyler]

I honestly can't stand stuff like this. Not only is it an aversion to success born out of a defence mechanism that is so ingrained into people's psyches that they mistakenly believe that being a second or third tier club is what represents Everton's identity, but these people seem to have a bizarre delusion that Everton pay their multi-million pound salaried players with rainbow peanuts or something.

It's a total joke that some Evertonians think that we are the last bastion of virtue when it comes to being a football club. No, we have long since been part of the same capitalist footballing system, in which clubs make use of money to build their clubs. It's absolutely ridiculous the way some people think we are somehow different to other clubs when our wage bill is about 80 million pound a year or something, and when we REGULARLY snatch players off smaller clubs through offering them MONEY!

Selling our soul, what a load of rubbish!

Spot on Jacqui

 

[chippy1722]

Even though we're unbeaten in 3 there's no momentum, the confidence is gone, the football is awful. Even If we manage to scrape a draw or a win on wednesday, I can't see how we will win on Sat. They beat us without getting out of first gear at OT. The atmosphere will be amazing on Sat but it's the players that don't look up for it. I can't even get excited about Saturday, Martinez has took all that away. I honestly think of he went tomorrow everyone would pull together and the lift would be massive.

 

[Bluerover]

Well the next two games are the biggest in his Everton career.

If we get two more abject performances he really is gone.

180 minutes of passion and pride and more positive forward play and he might get a bit longer

 

[joger]

Is he going to play hibbert in the derby?

 

[yelyah]

The only words that I can think to describe the above will be censored out and earn me a warning.

The more pressure put on him the better. It'll either wake him up(unlikely) or he gets booted out quicker(still unlikely but hopeful for this).

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Is he going to play hibbert in the derby?

Echo are running a story on how he's proving his fitness with the u21s tomorrow night with a view to involvement this week.

 

[AndyC]

Don't agree. I think you like most of the media are confusing what martinez says with reality. If he was an idealist he'd have given our youth players a chance instead he just calls players who aren't young, young.
If he was an idealist he wouldn't play the same system every week and call it flexibility. If he was an idealist he wouldn't talk about having a fantastic squad and play the same players every week. Etc. Etc.
To be honest I think he's one of the most result driven non project managers in the league which would be fine if we won the odd game.

He has given young players a chance, some fleetingly, others over a longer period... Galloway, Stones, Browning, Pennington, Garbutt, and you could even put Ross in that category too at a pinch.

His 'ideal' seems to me to play his system week in week out in the 'idealistic' hope that it works.

In my opinion, if he were as you suggest "result driven" he would change tactics, team selection and methodology to suit different game obstacles and hurdles, yet he rarely if ever does.

I think he truly does have a vision of how he wants and would like to see football played, and it is akin to the possession domination of Barcelona. But, he seems to unable to realise that the English Premiership is a different animal entirely to La Liga.

I don't think he is a bad person and perhaps I should have used the word 'romantic' ahead of 'idealist'.
BK certainly is a "romantic"... A great orator, but certainly no pragmatist.

But it also is undeniable that in his time at Wigan and in the last two seasons, and if I were to be hyper-critical, take it back to the 4-0 drubbing we got at the pit in his first campaign, El Bob hasn't got the skill set to manage a sustained league campaign.

Cup campaigns are only and can only be acclaimed as successful if the captain raises the cup at Wembley in front of rejoicing hordes of fans.
A league campaign can be acclaimed as successful if there is recognisable and (hopefully) sustained improvement year on year climaxing - if that's the right word - in ultimately a title being won... although regular top four finishes aka Arsenal would be great too.

I put it to you that either his 'idealism' or 'romanticism' is taking us backwards - the current league table and apathy surrounding the club right now bears witness to this.

Like so many others I wanted him to succeed, but he's failed, continues to fail and it has to stop.

 

[Bobs]

He has given young players a chance, some fleetingly, others over a longer period... Galloway, Stones, Browning, Pennington, Garbutt, and you could even put Ross in that category too at a pinch.

His 'ideal' seems to me to play his system week in week out in the 'idealistic' hope that it works.

In my opinion, if he were as you suggest "result driven" he would change tactics, team selection and methodology to suit different game obstacles and hurdles, yet he rarely if ever does.

I think he truly does have a vision of how he wants and would like to see football played, and it is akin to the possession domination of Barcelona. But, he seems to unable to realise that the English Premiership is a different animal entirely to La Liga.

I don't think he is a bad person and perhaps I should have used the word 'romantic' ahead of 'idealist'.
BK certainly is a "romantic"... A great orator, but certainly no pragmatist.

But it also is undeniable that in his time at Wigan and in the last two seasons, and if I were to be hyper-critical, take it back to the 4-0 drubbing we got at the pit in his first campaign, El Bob hasn't got the skill set to manage a sustained league campaign.

Cup campaigns are only and can only be acclaimed as successful if the captain raises the cup at Wembley in front of rejoicing hordes of fans.
A league campaign can be acclaimed as successful if there is recognisable and (hopefully) sustained improvement year on year climaxing - if that's the right word - in ultimately a title being won... although regular top four finishes aka Arsenal would be great too.

I put it to you that either his 'idealism' or 'romanticism' is taking us backwards - the current league table and apathy surrounding the club right now bears witness to this.

Like so many others I wanted him to succeed, but he's failed, continues to fail and it has to stop.

I think what you call his romanticism is simply lack of ability. He only knows one way of playing and it doesn't work because we don't have the players and he's not a good coach. All the talk of ideals and not compromising them is little more than a way of distracting people from this reality.
As for giving players a chance we'll have to agree to disagree. I call what van gaal and klopp have done this season giving young players a chance and they haven't gone on about it half as much as martinez

 

[dannyboy]

If we'd had a good season then I think he'd have the luxury of writing off the Anfield game. As it stands he really needs a result, a spineless performance at Anfield followed by a defeat in the semi final has to be the breaking point.

For me personally he could win both and I'd still want him gone now. The damage has been done.