Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Zatara]

I get what you're saying mate. but we have a choice.

Accept the [Poor language removed] and low expectations that have gone on before. or demand better. I'm not saying you're part of the problem, not at all, your genuine and sincere but until there's an acceptance that, this isn't really good enough. We can't go forward as a club.

However you want to interpret it, we've diminished. And that hurts. Martinez and Kenwright aren't the men to get us out of it, a tourniquet, for sure. If they pull off the gamble, I'd be first in line congratulating them. But the time of the Peoples club, plucky Everton is over.

Take a look at the lot over the park. Better for it, we laughed at Rodgers, now they're laughing at us. And they're still [Poor language removed] and above us. We stand still, if it goes on like this, we're going to get past on by West Ham etc... In three seasons he's had enough time by anybody's reckoning.

So let's see how the season ends. But if he can't produce now, he's gotta go. No more excuses.

The thing is, if there was actually someone on here who had a "plan" on who would be brought in as manager, what they would be doing differently to Martinez and actually showed some insight into a change then I'd be quite open and interested to read it.

At the moment not a single poster (i have seen) has offered an alternative despite thousands of pages on this and other threads endlessly bashing the manager and (mostly) backing the players.

Simply writing a managers name and saying "look what he won" (with quite a lot of these managers having serious money) doesnt equate to an alternative.

So, in the end we just have the same posters writing the same things on the forum. In reality the new ownership will be looking to improve in all areas but a gradual change and nothing immediate i think, but that could all change itself.

What id be keen to learn is what peoples suggestions would be for a manager and also what he would do differently....as for me its not just the manager at all. Its the players

 

[matty1878]

The thing is, if there was actually someone on here who had a "plan" on who would be brought in as manager, what they would be doing differently to Martinez and actually showed some insight into a change then I'd be quite open and interested to read it.

At the moment not a single poster (i have seen) has offered an alternative despite thousands of pages on this and other threads endlessly bashing the manager and (mostly) backing the players.

Simply writing a managers name and saying "look what he won" (with quite a lot of these managers having serious money) doesnt equate to an alternative.

So, in the end we just have the same posters writing the same things on the forum. In reality the new ownership will be looking to improve in all areas but a gradual change and nothing immediate i think, but that could all change itself.

What id be keen to learn is what peoples suggestions would be for a manager and also what he would do differently....as for me its not just the manager at all. Its the players

Loads of alternatives and it's not our job to find one its the boards. Martinez is wrecking this club fact.

 

[Zatara]

Stop spouting this, EVERYONE. I've already debunked it. He took over a team that finished 11th. He steadily got worse at Wigan and spent, Woolly also debunked the wages myth too.

He took a team that was lower midtable and gradually moved them down to the Championship with a pathetic 4-1 whimpering loss on the last day as his team conceded 13 goals in their last 5 league games and conceding 73 total.

Here's a beautiful factoid:
Steve Bruce's Wigan conceded 45 goals in his last season

Roberto Martinez's Wigan conceded 79, 61, 62, 73.

See a pattern?

Have you got the "wages" info that @Woolly Blue put up or perhaps he could post them again here?

It was widely reported that Whelan had cut costs by 25-30% under Martinez there when other clubs were increasing their budgets.

Also, there must be similarities between Moyes/Bruce overachieving playing % football and Martinez "long term" vision of "possession based football".

I wonder if he also attempted to change their squad more in line with this but eventually failed because he couldnt sign the players to fit into this style on their budget.

Thing is with Martinez, we all knew what we were getting when he joined. Someone with a long term vision who would make changes long term ro achieve this vision with short term goals as secondary. 3 years may seem a lot and in football terms it is but im not sure if he needs certain players in to be successful and hasnt been able to sign them so far.

Who knows....

 

[bluewally]

For me, its definitely not "fear of change", quite the opposite. The 'beautiful football' mantra needs players who are capable of playing his system and style and he needs to bring in these types with money (which he has never had enough of relative to the job and the competition).

I just want him to have the opportunity to spend this summer and see how we get on next season.

If anything the 'fear of change' is more like a 'fear of relegation' from a lot of posters here. I hope that Martinez can prove these people wrong and also that they will regain their faith in him once we have better results...

Who knows what happens next but theres so much hatred on here for a manager who has us in mid table which is just where Moyes has us before and lets face it weve done nothing for 20 years....

Its all very disappointing and we need to support the players and the manager and hope we win some games including the derby and the semi....

First off there's no hatred just an obvious realisation he's not gooe enough

Secondly 14th is not midtable

Thirdly Moyes generally had us 7/8 places higher without the 30 goal a season striker

Thanks. Try again

 

[Zatara]

Loads of alternatives and it's not our job to find one its the boards. Martinez is wrecking this club fact.

Thanks for responding to my post addressed to someone else with such a pointless response.

Perhaps stick to posting about how you want us to lose every week...more your level.

 

[bluewally]

Have you got the "wages" info that @Woolly Blue put up or perhaps he could post them again here?

It was widely reported that Whelan had cut costs by 25-30% under Martinez there when other clubs were increasing their budgets.

Also, there must be similarities between Moyes/Bruce overachieving playing % football and Martinez "long term" vision of "possession based football".

I wonder if he also attempted to change their squad more in line with this but eventually failed because he couldnt sign the players to fit into this style on their budget.

Thing is with Martinez, we all knew what we were getting when he joined. Someone with a long term vision who would make changes long term ro achieve this vision with short term goals as secondary. 3 years may seem a lot and in football terms it is but im not sure if he needs certain players in to be successful and hasnt been able to sign them so far.

Who knows....

Here you go again zat. You're actually trying to forgive him for wigans relegation now.

But you don't love him

 

[matty1878]

Thanks for responding to my post addressed to someone else with such a pointless response.

Perhaps stick to posting about how you want us to lose every week...more your level.

lol Yearh ok mate - whatever

 

[bluewally]

Thanks for responding to my post addressed to someone else with such a pointless response.

Perhaps stick to posting about how you want us to lose every week...more your level.

That's how forums work. If you don't want other people responding use a pm

 

[Zatara]

First off there's no hatred just an obvious realisation he's not gooe enough

Secondly 14th is not midtable

Thirdly Moyes generally had us 7/8 places higher without the 30 goal a season striker

Thanks. Try again

Yawn....more meaningless nonsense. There is clear hatred on here and that is obvious and has been provem by 15 people saying they want the team to lose to get the manager sacked.

Getting a bit tedious and boring now...not one poster has actually written out a detailed plan with reasoning on who would do a better job, how we would change tactically and what players would be jettissoned under the manager.

"Oooooh, lets get Jose in"....yawn.

 

[KevMirallas]

Yawn....more meaningless nonsense. There is clear hatred on here and that is obvious and has been provem by 15 people saying they want the team to lose to get the manager sacked.

Getting a bit tedious and boring now...not one poster has actually written out a detailed plan with reasoning on who would do a better job, how we would change tactically and what players would be jettissoned under the manager.

"Oooooh, lets get Jose in"....yawn.

To be fair mate, nobody really knows what could or would change with a new manager. Be it tactically, personnel wise or anything. It's always somewhat of a risk.

What we do know is that what is currently happening isn't working. And has been getting progressively worse for two years. There are serious tactical problems, morale problems and physical problems. So there is a (correct) assumption that a move is a risk worth taking at this point in time.

 

[Zatara]

That's how forums work. If you don't want other people responding use a pm

Forums are only able to work when people use reasonable debate as a form of argument.

Not slating other posters for their views or making up lies or twisting words...

Or incessantly posting the same nonsense that we should lose every game because that means no more manager (sound logic).

Sadly, it seems that this thread has (mostly) disintegrated into a free for all when even just reading the past 50 pages since yesterday shows posters arguing when they want the same thing.

People are getting too wound up and not offering reasonable debate (myself included at times).

I just hope Moshiri has some good advisors as sack Martinez or keep him we need a very good summer.


Oh and for what its worth, im not against a change in manager either....but it doesnt stop people jumping to conclusions (you included!). Im trying to balanced in my thinking and looking at it long term.

 

[bluewally]

Yawn....more meaningless nonsense. There is clear hatred on here and that is obvious and has been provem by 15 people saying they want the team to lose to get the manager sacked.

Getting a bit tedious and boring now...not one poster has actually written out a detailed plan with reasoning on who would do a better job, how we would change tactically and what players would be jettissoned under the manager.

"Oooooh, lets get Jose in"....yawn.

Zat you have absolutlely no basis for keeping him other than your fantasy football style transfer plans

Which of your galacticos are going to join a team finishing in the bottom half

The man's out of his depth but you are blind

There's evidence for that

We're 14th and barely holding off the challenge of Watford and palace to stay there

 

[Zatara]

To be fair mate, nobody really knows what could or would change with a new manager. Be it tactically, personnel wise or anything. It's always somewhat of a risk.

What we do know is that what is currently happening isn't working. And has been getting progressively worse for two years. There are serious tactical problems, morale problems and physical problems. So there is a (correct) assumption that a move is a risk worth taking at this point in time.

Spot on. But we dont know what Martinez will do in the summer (if hes here) as he has never had serious money to spend over a few players at the same time.

Thats my thinking as he knows the squad back to front by now and so logically we wont need someone to come in and take ages to get things changed.

I think we need dramatic changes.

 

[bluewally]

Forums are only able to work when people use reasonable debate as a form of argument.

Not slating other posters for their views or making up lies or twisting words...

Or incessantly posting the same nonsense that we should lose every game because that means no more manager (sound logic).

Sadly, it seems that this thread has (mostly) disintegrated into a free for all when even just reading the past 50 pages since yesterday shows posters arguing when they want the same thing.

People are getting too wound up and not offering reasonable debate (myself included at times).

I just hope Moshiri has some good advisors as sack Martinez or keep him we need a very good summer.


Oh and for what its worth, im not against a change in manager either....but it doesnt stop people jumping to conclusions (you included!). Im trying to balanced in my thinking and looking at it long term.

Making up lies is the same as making up hypothetical arguments.

If we ban those you won't be able to post in Martinez defence anymore

 

[Rich B]

To be fair mate, nobody really knows what could or would change with a new manager. Be it tactically, personnel wise or anything. It's always somewhat of a risk.

What we do know is that what is currently happening isn't working. And has been getting progressively worse for two years. There are serious tactical problems, morale problems and physical problems. So there is a (correct) assumption that a move is a risk worth taking at this point in time.

During the 5 live commentary yesterday they were talking about how Villa and Newcastle have been in gradual decline for a number of years, and therefore relegation should come as no surprise. I hope the Everton board were listening.