Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Zatara]

Fair point on the Villa game, everyone comes away with a different perspective on these things.

But, at the end of last season, I ( hopefully, though the vaults may call me a liar ) said he deserved another season so we could see if his second season was just a blip, and we'd be closer to his first season at this time.

But you have to draw a line somewhere, and the temptation is to "just give it a bit longer to see if it improves", but that's partly down to fear of change. Good managers are more likely to move over the summer than they are at Christmas so, on the assumption that we're going to change, lets get on with it. A change might not work out, but I don't believe Roberto has in him what we need. Maybe, in the future, he'll learn from his mistakes, and getting the sack or departing on a "mutual consent" basis will make him step back a bit and realise that the world isn't perfect and you can't just setup to play beautiful football and expect results to follow, but I'd prefer it if he took that experiment somewhere else.

He really was a breath of fresh air when he came though, and that, and the fact that he's obviously talented makes me sad to say that he needs to go, but his flaws are just too big at this time

For me, its definitely not "fear of change", quite the opposite. The 'beautiful football' mantra needs players who are capable of playing his system and style and he needs to bring in these types with money (which he has never had enough of relative to the job and the competition).

I just want him to have the opportunity to spend this summer and see how we get on next season.

If anything the 'fear of change' is more like a 'fear of relegation' from a lot of posters here. I hope that Martinez can prove these people wrong and also that they will regain their faith in him once we have better results...

Who knows what happens next but theres so much hatred on here for a manager who has us in mid table which is just where Moyes has us before and lets face it weve done nothing for 20 years....

Its all very disappointing and we need to support the players and the manager and hope we win some games including the derby and the semi....

 

[Zatara]

It comes across as knee jerk, but this really is how Villa started.

The rot needs to stop now. When you start accepting these crap finishes then you're in trouble. The likes of Lukaku leave and they're replaced with more Niasse type players and you've got the recipe for us going in the same direction as them.

Villa bought players for huge fees who were not good enough and put them on massive long term contracts.

o'Neill then demanded more money to spend on dross and was refused....then they made some daft appointments whilst trying to move players on after Lerner took a hit financially and became disillusioned at the club.

Its the opposite to where we are now. We have players we can easily sell on and a new owner and also alot of dross leaving this summer..

I cant see the link.

 

[royvernon39]

Do we suffer, as Evertonians, from delusions of grandeur?

We have a stadium of mid-range capacity and a Chairman and Board who have invested nil or next to nil net monies
over twenty years and more ? Why are we any better than Sunderland, AV, NUFC, etc

Moyes slowly upgraded the team's quality and RM thanks to the Lukaku,mc Carthy, Del Boy and other moves created the possibility of Top Fourdom. RM then ballsed it up thanks to Howard and nutty game mananagement but who could have done as good a job overall? We go to Chelski and Manu now thinking that we can do them. That had not happened in decades. The RM experiment is looking bad now but lets hold our trigger finger a little longer.

 

[Igrok]

Yes I do and all that guff about paying your money and being entitled to an opinion is twaddle, media tripe. You pay what max 45 quid for a ticket, your not investing thosands of pounds, where does that sense of entitlement come from- what entitles fans to undermine the team?

In case you hadn't noticed in the past two seasons, booing players has undermined the development of some of our players on the ball and broadly at half time etc. We have a team that are awful at home - where we used to be unbeatable, in case you hadn't noticed and have one of the best away records in the league. Work it out.

Your badly hyperboling, presenting this Tedish behaviour as caring enough to do something, get a grip and read the last paragraph and look at exactly how fans and the culture of entitlement is contributing. It's divisive. Crisis that requires action? Yeah right, sorry I've been through Johnson, to many last day relegation battles, financial implosions - I won't be unfurling divisive banners or booing - at a mid table finish and the prospect of an Fa Cup final.

Where do you see midtable finish and cup final?
What land are you from and what are u smoking? Maybe share with us...

 

[Sentinel]

I just want him to have the opportunity to spend this summer and see how we get on next season

Based on what? Tell me in his history of Premiership management. Something, anything that convinces you he has the acumen or ability to produce a side that will challenge, if not for the title, but for the Champions league.

He's a cup manager. Nothing in his history suggests otherwise. A 5th place finish at this stage is an anomaly. Not a constant.

Why waste another six months, unless we have another Catterick on our hands? And if you really believe that, fair enough. But you've got to draw your line in the sand. If he achieves success in the Cup, I'd argue you're corner if not, time to purge the dead wood.

 

[Zatara]

Based on what? Tell me in his history of Premiership management. Something, anything that convinces you he has the acumen or ability to produce a side that will challenge, if not for the title, but for the Champions league.

He's a cup manager. Nothing in his history suggests otherwise. A 5th place finish at this stage is an anomaly. Not a constant.

Why waste another six months, unless we have another Catterick on our hands? And if you really believe that, fair enough. But you've got to draw your line in the sand. If he achieves success in the Cup, I'd argue you're corner if not, time to purge the dead wood.

People always poke him about Wigan.

However on his budget at swansea and wigan he overachieved for years in the league...

I dont say he is the ONLY man for the job or even that i have total confidence in him....just would like to see how it pans out now we have money...

 

[Lee Smith]

The close season at EFC will require a manager of experience and intelligence. For that reason, the distant hope of FA Cup glory and his good transfer history I would stick with RM.

Most managers are crap. Utter dross. Look at Benitez and the flim flam Swede who conned his way to become England's manager. We got lucky with DM and the jury is out on RM, so remember that sacking someone is much easier than finding a good replacement.

You want to stick with Martinez for the 'distant hope of FA Cup glory', yet call Benitez, a man who has won 12 trophies as manager across Europe, 'utter dross'.

Sorry but I find that a bit odd

 

[kithnou]

Where do you see midtable finish and cup final?
What land are you from and what are u smoking? Maybe share with us...

15th and the possibility of a cup final. Can't say some Evertonians aren't an ambitious lot.

 

[Sentinel]

just would like to see how it pans out now we have money...

I get what you're saying mate. but we have a choice.

Accept the [Poor language removed] and low expectations that have gone on before. or demand better. I'm not saying you're part of the problem, not at all, your genuine and sincere but until there's an acceptance that, this isn't really good enough. We can't go forward as a club.

However you want to interpret it, we've diminished. And that hurts. Martinez and Kenwright aren't the men to get us out of it, a tourniquet, for sure. If they pull off the gamble, I'd be first in line congratulating them. But the time of the Peoples club, plucky Everton is over.

Take a look at the lot over the park. Better for it, we laughed at Rodgers, now they're laughing at us. And they're still [Poor language removed] and above us. We stand still, if it goes on like this, we're going to get past on by West Ham etc... In three seasons he's had enough time by anybody's reckoning.

So let's see how the season ends. But if he can't produce now, he's gotta go. No more excuses.

 

[Huyton Layne]

People always poke him about Wigan.

However on his budget at swansea and wigan he overachieved for years in the league...

I dont say he is the ONLY man for the job or even that i have total confidence in him....just would like to see how it pans out now we have money...

Stop spouting this, EVERYONE. I've already debunked it. He took over a team that finished 11th. He steadily got worse at Wigan and spent, Woolly also debunked the wages myth too.

He took a team that was lower midtable and gradually moved them down to the Championship with a pathetic 4-1 whimpering loss on the last day as his team conceded 13 goals in their last 5 league games and conceding 73 total.

Here's a beautiful factoid:
Steve Bruce's Wigan conceded 45 goals in his last season

Roberto Martinez's Wigan conceded 79, 61, 62, 73.

See a pattern?

 

[kithnou]

Stop spouting this, EVERYONE.
He took a team that was lower midtable and gradually moved them down to the Championship with a pathetic 4-1 whimpering loss on the last day as his team conceded 13 goals in their last 5 league games and conceding 73 total.Here's a beautiful factoid:Steve Bruce's Wigan conceded 45 goals in his last season.Roberto Martinez's Wigan conceded 79, 61, 62, 73.See a pattern?

People, for whatever personal gratification, refuse to see...

 

[a bell maul]

All I see is a team (our team) going backwards at a rate of knots.

I think (in fact I am 100% certain) Martinez is waaaay out of his depth.

Give him enough time, and he will relegate us.

 

[kithnou]

Martinez after the 9-1 loss Wigan Suffered to Spurs

"If you analyse the Tottenham game, at half-time we went in at a good moment but in the second half we conceded eight goals in 40 minutes, which is impossible to explain. It's a freak event."

"To lose 9-1 and then win the next game shows the character of the group and the leadership material within themselves, the winning mentality. I was extremely proud."


Later that season Wigan lost 8-0 to Chelsea

This is him after he became our manager talking about that 9-1 loss to spurs

"Those are the games that divide men from kids," he said. "It gives you a real platform to move on. After that incredible defeat, we won the next game which is something which is difficult to do."

In addition Martinez suggests the magnitude of such a result actually helped his Latics side stay up that year.

"You get more information about those extremes than you do in other situations," he added. "You get the same outcome – no points – if you lose narrowly, but they are less drastic.

"A heavy defeat helped us stay up, 100 per cent. That took us into a different level and the season after it took us to another level as we want to."


So basically losing 9-1 was the game that enabled them to stay up, a week after conceding 8 goals in 40 minutes he praises the leadership qualities throughout the team and the character of the players. For real we actually hired this guy...

Good God I just saw this post.
Sweet Lord and heavens above.
Have mercy on us.

 

[Aar_the_Toffees]

Did you write letters to Santa when you were a kid mate?

I ask for the same thing every year mate. Please let Everton not be absolutely crap during the holiday fixtures.

 

[Igrok]

So he would be trying to pull this cup illusion one more time...