Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[The Penalty Box Dancer]

What do we do on Saturday? Do we turn up singing and getting behind the players even though we know we are about to get stuffed. People are dropping out for Watford and palace has many tickets left. It's a sad state of affairs.

After the international break the fans were refreshed and ready, if we would've beat United, 80% of our conversations on here, on phone ins, podcasts would not be happening. That was martinez's chance to get things moving away from the pressure. Instead he jumped right into the fire.

 

[mythbuster]

As paying punters we've got every right to grumble at the durge we've been served up at home by this fella.

You think we should all just sit there and politely applaud as we take another beating at the hands of average opposition?

3 years mate, 3 years......it's not like Evertonians have turned on this manager after 3 months. We've had enough of him, it's time for change, he's had his chance and he's blown it. Time for the club to find a new man to take us forwards. That's what's being said and that's more than fair enough, given the time frame.

FFS, you're normally the voice of reason.

*cries into cornflakes and accepts that Roberto has lost the fans*

Time for a new manager if things have got this bad.... No point in arsing around....

 

[bluestevon]

Not accusing you of booing mate. Was just a generic comment. It's civil war amongst our fans at the moment, and tbh, your side is probably winning, but let's not pretend it translates into a furious Goodison wiyh undivided support

A civil war would suggest an even remotely even split mate, from what i see and hear it's more Lichenstein wanting him in and the rest of europe wanting him out

 

[BernieWright13]

What do we do on Saturday? Do we turn up singing and getting behind the players even though we know we are about to get stuffed. People are dropping out for Watford and palace has many tickets left. It's a sad state of affairs.

After the international break the fans were refreshed and ready, if we would've beat United, 80% of our conversations on here, on phone ins, podcasts would not be happening. That was martinez's chance to get things moving away from the pressure. Instead he jumped right into the fire.

A fire he lit in the first place and has been fanning for almost 2 full seasons

 

[DrEFC]

Not accusing you of booing mate. Was just a generic comment. It's civil war amongst our fans at the moment, and tbh, your side is probably winning, but let's not pretend it translates into a furious Goodison wiyh undivided support

Goodison is absolutely apathetic. There's one reason for that- we are no longer surprised at loosing. Who's fault is that? The fans? Sing/don't sing, the same non-urgent footy is played on the pitch with no difference in results.

 

[bluestevon]

Goodison is absolutely apathetic. There's one reason for that- we are no longer surprised at loosing. Who's fault is that? The fans? Sing/don't sing, the same non-urgent footy is played on the pitch with no difference in results.

Our brand of football should be named the crowd killer mate, kills the home crowd within minutes of tapping it aimlessly around, kills the home fans at away games by boring the life out of them - probably why the results are better as we take their crowd out the game as well when playing away from home.

 

[BernieWright13]

Here's the thing though mate; he's going nowhere, yet. Sitting on the sidelines and grumbling doesn't strike me as being very supportive.

And he might neve,r if we don't make our feelings loudly known

 

[hktoffee]

Ive had a think about this and posted something similar in the transfer thread.

This summer, if Martinez was sacked and we brought in a new manager who was relatively young. If he came in and was unveiled by Moshiri and made the statement that he wanted to emulate Barca through changing the style of the youth teams all the way up to the first team but this would take 3-5 seasons to see the results of the youth players coming through:

Would you accept this as a realistic time frame for the youth team conveyor belt?

For the first team if he explained that he had a vision of the players he needed but it would be a process of 3 seasons before he could change the squads style of play through developing current players and also signing young players with large potential BUT we may need to go two steps back before taking 4 steps forward....

Would you accept this?

Now, for me when martinez came in these were timeframes i was looking at and so after the amazing first season i was disappointed last year but focused on the rebuilding process of the first team.

i think hes done well by focusing on short term signings at low cost and using his money on longer term signings. What i think can be agreed is that he has made the club money on paper here.

For me, the only way to speed up the process of getting the first team to fit his style of play faster is to sign more and better players. Of course this can be said about any team but for one with a long term VISION it needs specific players in specific positions. These could be players who have unique skills such as a Busquets type where we currently have Barry and McCarthy where one player is needed.

I wont detail all the examples in my head BUT if you look at the CM area the only signing of note is McCarthy and the left side we havent spent more than £5mil on anyone.

Now, im not saying that another manager couldnt do better.

Im also not saying we play anything like Barca (though perhaps we aspire to).

What im saying is that in my opinion we dont know how Martinez will do if he has investment behind him and can fill the positions he wants with the type of players he wants...

For me, i would give him this summer. Thats my original timeframe for him revamping the squad and id like to see what he can do with it next season.

If he fails partway through next season then of course he gets fired. But id like to see him given the opportunity as for me even if he does fail then im confident he will leave behind a squad with a lot of value for the new manager.

The last two games were not pleasant to watch mind you....on the final point about the Semi Final, i dont see that as a benchmark when looking back 21 seasons for our last trophy (which i remember as if it was yesterday). However if he does manage to win us a cup he will go NOT go down as a better manager than Moyes for me, just a different type of manager.

This season i said 8th or even 9th as a finish
Next season 6th or higher
Season after top 4.

I saw on another forum like i posted in here that we went from 9th highest wage budget to 11th on 2014 to 2015. Perhaps Martinez isnt the manager to get better results than using the wage / transfer budget examples.....perhaps hes brilliant with players who can all fit into his system and style...

Id just like to see him given the chance now to finish his rebuilding.

There is a fair chance I am repeating my view but still, I have to say this.

I am amazed you said 9th is what you are expecting. Wow 9th? No wonder we are the plicky small time Everton. How can the expectation gone downhill like the winnng rate of Martinez? I hate to mention Moyes again. You see he had made us an estrablished top 6 PL club with literally no resources right before he left for Man Utd. And now you expect 9th.

The style of play has indeed changed. Notably, the defence becomes poo while the fitness level of the team has gone backwards as they have shown on the pitch. League results have backed the case and the team can barely beat oppositions at home for over a year. It doen't work. Whether it is the tactcis or the repetitive game plan. Add to the fact that he decided to buy Barry and McCarthy it's his own decision to play those two how on earth you said he did not have time to purchase players who suit his style of play? In average he has a net spend of over £15m per season so you shall never assert that he is skint and barely have money to strength the squad. 3 full seasons and he does not figure out the type of players he needs? Ridiculous if this is the case.

Rebuilding process is not an excuse, not at all. Would you give time to Walter Smith and Mike Walker to rebuild? Face the reality and facts please. Ask yourselve the question. A winning rate of 30% do you think it is acceptable? 21 wins out of 68 matches since August 2014. How can you defend this dreadful league records? Two seasons of crap is long enough, and a consistant one to showcase what the manager's general ability is. Yes Martinez can win the FA Cup with 2 games to go but what makes you think he has the ability to turn things around in the league in long terms? He lets the fans down big time two seasons in a row. That is 76 matches come May. A long time.

I hope Mr. Moshiri will look for a new manager with proven records and reputation to lead this great footbal club not someone who is untested at this level. In modern football you need results. A winning rate of 30% over the course of two seasons is apparently Bobby's record. He deserves the sack based on this horrendous record alone, and rightly so at the end of season.

Most fans are pragmatic and deem 3 full seasons are enough to judge. I am pretty sure last summer people would say give him this season to get 6th. Some people just move the goal post as they wish.

What if he wins the FA Cup? Of course great but will you bet he might eventually come good next season? Results do not backup the case. League form wise the very least.

 

[bluewally]

Here's the thing though mate; he's going nowhere, yet. Sitting on the sidelines and grumbling doesn't strike me as being very supportive.

a lot of us are of the opinion that the best thing we can do to support the long term future of Everton is not support the manager

 

[mythbuster]

And he might neve,r if we don't make our feelings loudly known

I've give up mate. He's lost the fans. Think I loved Moyes more anyway.

 

[PhilM]

What's this? I've extensively said in other threads I don't boo the team, and I believe Martinez is a cup manager but doesn't have the nouse or tactical flexibility to be a good league manager. What do you do? Posting get behind Martinez on a forum does nothing.

Neither do I. Never have and I doubt that I ever will, as personally for me it's something I do not see as productive. I grumble and shout instead.

And yes it is becoming too easy for some to boo which is a concern. However, a lot of people like me have paid good money to regularly see dross.

So if they want to boo, although I will not get involved, then that's their right. It's not toxic as some may make out but the frustration is tangible.

We in the majority do not turn up to shout, grumble and for some to boo. We go with the desire to support our team and see them succeed.

The problem is that the low levels of optimism that we do turn up with are quickly extinguished by the same predictable, turgid performances.

That creates frustration and discontent which then manifests itself in a number of different ways: booing; shouting; sarcastic laughter; disinterest.

It isn't nice for the players and I accept that, but some who suggest there's no support at all are wrong (probably because they weren't there).

There is support... I show it... others show it... the problem is that as mentioned earlier it's quite often quickly extinguished by their performance.

To therefore expect people to turn up and regardless of the performance sing and shout is farcical: we're not into the fake flag waving malarkey.

If we start going down those lines then there's no hope as it then means nothing: No pride; no highs and lows. Just manufactured enthusiasm.

As @DrEFC said, Goodison has become apathetic. Why? Because poor performances have became the norm. Our expectations have been lowered.

Whose fault is that? Well I certainly know it's not mine. After the Arsenal game I simply shrugged it off and went to the pub as did many others.

For the regular attendees like myself I pose the question: is going to home games enjoyable any more? Don't worry... I know the answer.

 

[larrygobfiend]

A plan B once in a while would be a start, but no, he perseveres with the same old possession based fodder that every team in the league has sussed out. Switch it up once in a while FFS.

I see through it all now and cringe at his post match jargon.

 

[big bobs beard]

Our brand of football should be named the crowd killer mate, kills the home crowd within minutes of tapping it aimlessly around, kills the home fans at away games by boring the life out of them - probably why the results are better as we take their crowd out the game as well when playing away from home.

Sat in the United end on Sunday with a good mate who is a United fan and United are doing exactly the same - brand of football that kills the crowd and leads to a dead atmosphere and the United fans can't stand it. He was surprised how turgid our football was given the pace of our starting eleven and was fully expecting us to turn them over. We just don't up the pace of the game enough to take advantage of it though. Prefer us to be pressing and getting stuck in rather than the tippy tappy stuff that has proven to get us nowhere. Every club now knows to press us and the mistakes will eventually come

 

[Blue Cheese]

Just a thought but how about we get behind the team and manager until the end of the season ?

I am firmly behind the team; the manager however has burnt his bridges with me. Lucky for him my thoughts count for nought

 

[Bungle]

As paying punters we've got every right to grumble at the durge we've been served up at home by this fella.

You think we should all just sit there and politely applaud as we take another beating at the hands of average opposition?

3 years mate, 3 years......it's not like Evertonians have turned on this manager after 3 months. We've had enough of him, it's time for change, he's had his chance and he's blown it. Time for the club to find a new man to take us forwards. That's what's being said and that's more than fair enough, given the time frame.

FFS, you're normally the voice of reason.