Roberto Martinez discussion

[Khalekan]

As I've said mate, i haven't got an issue with the Bournemouth one.

But you can't just shirk the Chelsea one off and blame it on the team/manager.

The defence, on that occasion, did their job by getting Terry caught in a clearly offside position when the official was level with play.

Hello?

Everton scored what seemed to be a winning goal in injury time at Chelsea then conceded an equaliser. The same thing happened at Bournemouth

End of.

You are now arguing for arguing's own sake with this increasingly tedious over analysing of every minute detail of every post you come across.

 

[LocalNative]

Decisions balance themselves out over the season usually, we won't moan when some of our goals look offside, so can't point the finger at the poor officials.

Poor officials? Are you defending the absolutely dire officiating we've seen this season? Decisions don't balance themselves out, how will our semi-final exit be balanced out with officiating?

 

[Khalekan]

I can feel the next excuse being crafted already. 'It's a freak season for home goals conceded, look at Chelsea, macro European trends from away performances outside of Martinez's control, the earth is spinning on a new trajectory affecting the whole league except for 19 other teams'. Will be interesting to see what logic defying excuse comes out this time.

lol lol lol

 

[BlueToff]

Hello?

Everton scored what seemed to be a winning goal in injury time at Chelsea then conceded an equaliser. The same thing happened at Bournemouth

End of.

You are now arguing for arguing's own sake with this increasingly tedious over analysing of every minute detail of every post you come across.

But that wasn't my point and you know it.

My point is what I said in my reply to you.

I'm not looking for an argument. I'm pointing out that the Chelsea and Bournemouth goals are entirely different in that one was fine and the other shouldn't have counted. That isn't a minute detail, it's a glaring fact - just as it's a fact that the game finished 3-3 rather than 3-2 to us.

When the defence/Martinez is to blame, I will admit it. That isn't one of those occasions.

 

[BlueToff]

I could probably count a couple of goals we have scored this season which have looked offside, plus one or two more opposition managers have moaned about.

We should be just as much looking at ourselves as the officials - officiating has been bad this year i agree, however like bournemouth we shouldn't have had the ball anywhere near our box in them games.

The stirling one was baffling, but we had 6 defenders in the box too. Not like he squared it into an empty box.

Off the top of my head there hasn't been any in the league mate, or even league cup, that were clear cut.

Got no issue with the one like AGuero scored against us which was right on the line/marginal. It's when it's clear cut and was the last kick of the game...

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Look back at my posts.

I attempt to make reasoned points and when there is reason to question/blame RM I do and will.

Chelsea isn't one of them.

And we did play an offside trap. Terry was caught offside by two yards after our defence moved forward. It's the definition of an offside trap.

No-one was blaming Martinez. In not one of my posts did i say it was him to blame.

Watch it again - we are moving back, no one is playing an offside trap. Jags makes a terrible effort of attacking the ball after Besic missed the header.

Not one player is moving forward to play and offside trap.

Look at the image when the ball is coming in - we are moving back..

I went the game and i couldn't spot us trying to play someone offside, we where moving backwards with the ball and no-one tracked Terry. Tell a lie, barry did, but was too late.

 

[Lanolin]

Oh no I don't think he was saying that about the Bournemouth game.

But I said at the time that it was the same weekend exactly that the year before we had capitulated at Spurs and our season spiralled out of control.

Now, this year, we've shown more fight but there was certainly a factor of the wind being knocked out of the players' sails a bit.

I also think McCarthy was a huge miss. As somebody else has said, and I have said a lot since then, McCarthy doesn't get injured and I think we win that Bournemouth game with ease.

As for WBA, we far from 'conspired' to lose the game. We gave away a sloppy goal but overall it was a good performance and a game any reasonable neutral or football fan would agree that we deserved to win. Unfortunately it wasn't to be.

Err. 'conspired to lose' is a very widely used turn of phrase mate. I'm not suggesting we actually hatched a plot to lose, just that we did lose.

Also who wasn't saying that about the Bournemouth game? The person i was quoting was, he's even replied saying so.

The point i was making is that a poster claimed if we'd beaten Bournemouth we'd have gone on a great run, just like you said yesterday that if we'd scored one we'd have gone on to beat West Brom comfortably, but the facts don't back it up. Ther have been numerous occasions in the past 18 months where i've thought we were on the right track and results were coming, but then we've hit the buffers. There've also been plenty of occasions, as i documented yesterday, where we've dominated a game and scored, only to find ourselves being pegged back. I've now got to the stage where i don't believe anymore unfortunately.

I also think that the performances immediately after Bournemouth suggest it didn't hit them all that hard. The next 45 minutes we played was about as good as we've looked all year, and the win at Boro (albeit against lower league opposition) was probably our most accomplished 90 minute performance until Stoke last week.

 

[TheFinnFan]

That's all down to sheer frustration.

Some people are letting their emotions get the better of them and lashing out at other posters instead of trading in calm overview of where we are as a football club. They run away from that approach and prefer personal attack because the facts are acting like a giant rock upon which their rants and fume crash and fall.

The salient facts:

RM is our manager
RM will remain our manager
The team are 100% behind him
The team are playing the best attacking football for generations
The squad is getting stronger and stronger
We are not in any danger whatsoever and can climb into the top half at any point
We've put a very good cup run together already and can do the same in the other domestic cup we're in
Most Evertonians are happy to see RM remain they just want defensive solidity to go with it
The board have absolutely no intentions of changing manager


There's no way around the above. It just IS that way. The sooner the restless accept it and move on, rather than causing periodic (and laughable) crises out of every draw or defeat, then the better it'll be for them.

Thats right.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Poor officials? Are you defending the absolutely dire officiating we've seen this season? Decisions don't balance themselves out, how will our semi-final exit be balanced out with officiating?

Why do people not read - have i defended the decisions anywhere? please point me to them... Have i not said officiating this season has been bad all around?

 

[BlueToff]

No-one was blaming Martinez. In not one of my posts did i say it was him to blame.

Watch it again - we are moving back, no one is playing an offside trap. Jags makes a terrible effort of attacking the ball after Besic missed the header.

Not one player is moving forward to play and offside trap.

Look at the image when the ball is coming in - we are moving back..

I went the game and i couldn't spot us trying to play someone offside, we where moving backwards with the ball and no-one tracked Terry. Tell a lie, barry did, but was too late.

Two yards offside though... As that top pic shows we've got a good line and yes, though Jags misses the header (again, not RM who mystically told him to do that), we played an offside trap in that sense.

And of course we were sitting back... we were trying to defend a lead?

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Two yards offside though... As that top pic shows we've got a good line and yes, though Jags misses the header (again, not RM who mystically told him to do that), we played an offside trap in that sense.

And of course we were sitting back... we were trying to defend a lead?

Yeah i know it was offside - the whole world knows its offside - not at one point did we push out and play an offside trap.

Why is Martinez been brought into this again? No-one said he did tell him to.

Pointless trying to debate this tbh.

 

[BlueToff]

Yeah i know it was offside - the whole world knows its offside - not at one point did we push out and play an offside trap.

Why is Martinez been brought into this again? No-one said he did tell him to.

Pointless trying to debate this tbh.

Okay mate fair enough. Apologise if I miss-understood your point.

My point is that the Chelsea game gets used as a stick to beat RM with by some, but it clearly shouldn't due to those circumstances.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Okay mate fair enough. Apologise if I miss-understood your point.

My point is that the Chelsea game gets used as a stick to beat RM with by some, but it clearly shouldn't due to those circumstances.

I agree, to a point. I am not using this to beat Martinez with at all - read any of my points. I don't mention him.

I think there is a game management issue with our club, this isn't just the manager this is players, coaches everything.

Disregard the Chelsea and the debate about offside traps for a second, if it was onside (like bournemouth so its not totally hypothetical as its happened in other games) there is a issue with game management and seeing games out - particularly after going up so late.

I dislike the blame culture that flies around sometimes pointing the fingers at elements outside our club, officials have been shoite - there is no two ways about it we didn't get a pen for god knows how long. I just find it more useful to be looking at our club rather then outside influences first, we learn to manage some games better (again not just talking about the manager here), we can then forget the argument that we don't and we can only moan at the refs.

But, thats me.

 

[Jxg]

Nice to see Martinez downplaying the importance of the FA Cup to save his arse when we crash out of it.

 

[BlueToff]

I agree, to a point. I am not using this to beat Martinez with at all - read any of my points. I don't mention him.

I think there is a game management issue with our club, this isn't just the manager this is players, coaches everything.

Disregard the Chelsea and the debate about offside traps for a second, if it was onside (like bournemouth so its not totally hypothetical as its happened in other games) there is a issue with game management and seeing games out - particularly after going up so late.

I dislike the blame culture that flies around sometimes pointing the fingers at elements outside our club, officials have been shoite - there is no two ways about it we didn't get a pen for god knows how long. I just find it more useful to be looking at our club rather then outside influences first, we learn to manage some games better (again not just talking about the manager here), we can then forget the argument that we don't and we can only moan at the refs.

But, thats me.

I agree mate on the whole.

My point would be I also dislike the blame culture when a decision is clearly subjective (e.g. a 50/50 pen call). However, I also dislike it within the club how everything gets pinned on Martinez - like you say yourself - it's not just down to him.

I think over the course of 2016 so far, bar the Chelsea and Swansea games in the league, our defending has improved dramatically as we now defend as a unit.

Unfortunately, we were let down on Saturday by a few players switching off. Hopefully we'll get a positive reaction.