Roberto Martinez discussion

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Again, the evidence is there that he has changed it. He attempted to make us go more direct the other day by bringing Kone on. It didn't work and he got slaughtered. I'm willing to bet that had he brought Kev or Pienaar on, but we still lost, he would have got accused of being too defensive for not bringing another striker on...

One game though? Im talking about the same formation with same players for a good period time rather than last week. How many times has he started with two wide men? I still would of preferred Kev to Kone. I dont see how thats defensive.We needed a goal. Kev scored a worldie when he was subbed on last. Meanwhile Kone couldnt convert one on one at Newcastle.
 

Oh is that it? I praised Garbutt for his corner too btw. I labelled someone Gosling mark 2 much to the point that he may go downhill as a PL footballer, which means if Garbutt leaves Everton on a free I think he might follow the trend of Gosling's career because I always think Everton are the right place for development for young footballers. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

If you think Gosling is doing okay it's fine for me (Much like some posters think this club are progressing at the moment). After he left Everton I don't think he has progressed to another level (not well off than playing for Everton I mean). He is back to PL this season playing for Bournemouth and is not tracked by the big boys. He is 26 now.

So you are right on everything? I can be wrong so are you.

I was in London visiting brother at the weekend and we got tickets for QPR v Fulham. Garbutt came on after about 5 minutes due to an injury. Obviously I was watching him more closely than some others. He looked decent and played a good ball over the top which led to a goal but I didn't think he looked prem level yet. He might improve but I didnt see anything I hadnt seen from him before which makes me wonder.
 
Who in their right mind would ever say "This game is crying out for Kone".

If he put on Kevin or even Geri instead of Kone we would have got at least a draw.

There's absolutely no guarantee of that at all. There was logic in that sub. It had worked against Watford in a similar position, and against WBA away as well.

The aim probably was to free up Lukaku a bit.

It didn't work, obviously.

I'm not saying Kev shouldn't have come on though - it seemed stupid not to use him at some point but at the same time I don't think he would have been the answer to our problems.
 

1. As much as fans would like them to, top managers or managers who wish to be top managers never air their mistakes in public. You didn't see Ferguson do it until months after an issue arose, and you don't see Wenger or Mourinho (other than sulking) or whoever else. They may admit responsibility, but very rarely will they openly admit to mistakes. It signals weakness, firstly to the media and secondly to other managers.

2. He has tried to rectify them by implementing a more defensive method since the turn of the year. He did it notably this season starting at Spurs at home after the Stoke game, and he got slaughtered for it despite us getting a 1-1 draw against what was the best side to come to Goodison so far this season and a game that we ended up finishing on the front foot.

3. He has not kept making the same mistakes. You're wrong, and you - like I - have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. From the outside, since the turn of the year, I think the signs are there that there has been a clear shift to retaining some defensive solidity, and in the last few games before WBA the balance was perfect.
O k mate,we ain't going to agree.
 
I was in London visiting brother at the weekend and we got tickets for QPR v Fulham. Garbutt came on after about 5 minutes due to an injury. Obviously I was watching him more closely than some others. He looked decent and played a good ball over the top which led to a goal but I didn't think he looked prem level yet. He might improve but I didnt see anything I hadnt seen from him before which makes me wonder.

Oviedo (just signed a new deal) and Baines will be playing next season too so Garbutt is likely to go out on loan again?
 
One game though? Im talking about the same formation with same players for a good period time rather than last week. How many times has he started with two wide men? I still would of preferred Kev to Kone. I dont see how thats defensive.We needed a goal. Kev scored a worldie when he was subbed on last. Meanwhile Kone couldnt convert one on one at Newcastle.

No it's not one game though is it?

Since the turn of the year we've looked more assured defensively while still retaining our attacking edge, especially in recent games.

On saturday, we conceded a sloppy goal due to bad marking from experienced players, and couldn't find a way through.

Nothing to do with the system as the system we played saw us create over 20 chances and 30 shots on goal?
 
Let's hope we are not having the same discussion at the end of the season then ;)

However, his current win rate of the last 20 months suggests we might be.

If come the end of the season we are sat 12th, then maybe we look at a change.

But I don't think we should make the changes now, those players are Bobbys players, or most of them are, so lets see what he can do.

All managers will in the end live and die by the results.
 
O k mate,we ain't going to agree.

I think we could on some things, but you just seem to, of all the issues, be refusing to accept that he has at least tried to change things.

I'll be the first to admit that (from the pov of a fan) he seems to have got things wrong at times or those changes haven't worked.

I just don't like this lazy assumption that he hasn't tried to change certain aspects, because he quite clearly has.

I also don't get why anybody expects a manager to openly admit he is wrong. It just, down to a plethora of reasons, won't happen.
 

Let's hope we are not having the same discussion at the end of the season then ;)

However, his current win rate of the last 20 months suggests we might be.

Have to agree. When we win 2 in a row for the first time in ages suddenly that's it he's fixed it and losing the next game doesn't matter.

Long term form would suggest we will not finish in the top half.

I hope we win every game between now and the end of the season but I just cant see it happening.
 
If come the end of the season we are sat 12th, then maybe we look at a change.

But I don't think we should make the changes now, those players are Bobbys players, or most of them are, so lets see what he can do.

All managers will in the end live and die by the results.

We are seeing nothing to suggest there will be change. This is why I think a new manager may come in and galvanise what we have and get the best out of this crop of players, as I don't think he is capable and seems to stubborn and a complete one trick pony.
 
I think we could on some things, but you just seem to, of all the issues, be refusing to accept that he has at least tried to change things.

I'll be the first to admit that (from the pov of a fan) he seems to have got things wrong at times or those changes haven't worked.

I just don't like this lazy assumption that he hasn't tried to change certain aspects, because he quite clearly has.

I also don't get why anybody expects a manager to openly admit he is wrong. It just, down to a plethora of reasons, won't happen.
He wouldn't admit he makes mistakes even to himself, he is one stubborn man,it's becoming like ground hog day
 
We are seeing nothing to suggest there will be change. This is why I think a new manager may come in and galvanise what we have and get the best out of this crop of players, as I don't think he is capable and seems to stubborn and a complete one trick pony.


Well, the 3 games before weekend suggests you are wrong.

And looking at Bobbys first season....he did what you are wanting from a new bloke!!
 
well its not, to the fans.

Each and every fan like to see different things in a team or manager, I prefer to see us create 37 chances to try and win a game.

Same, but I prefer to actually win the game with 1 chance than lose it with 37. How often do we make 37 chances by the way?
 

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