Roberto Martinez discussion

[Lanolin]

Exactly, so you would sack a manager for those 3 points ??

If he'd been set a specific target and failed to achieve it in 2 out of 3 years I think it would be remiss not to at least consider sacking him, yes.

Fine margins work both ways, and if we were only 3 points ahead of the teams 2/3 places below is then what would be the difference?

For all of my criticism of him I genuinely don't want him to be sacked, but I think another finish of 10th or lower would be simply unacceptable. We all have our own cut off points but for me consecutive bottom half finishes with the money he's spent and players he inherited would be a bridge too far.

 

[Pabbers]

Big difference between outcome and intent. As shown on Saturday, a manager who apparently plays 'not to lose' beat a manager who apparently always 'plays to win'. Pretty similar in the league table as well, such is the folly of selecting managers on intangible intentions. Any change in the outcome of Everton's big games from Moyes to Martinez? Not as of yet. The approach therefore is irrelevant.

well its not, to the fans.

Each and every fan like to see different things in a team or manager, I prefer to see us create 37 chances to try and win a game.

 

[Pabbers]

If he'd been set a specific target and failed to achieve it in 2 out of 3 years I think it would be remiss not to at least consider sacking him, yes.

Fine margins work both ways, and if we were only 3 points ahead of the teams 2/3 places below is then what would be the difference?

For all of my criticism of him I genuinely don't want him to be sacked, but I think another finish of 10th or lower would be simply unacceptable. We all have our own cut off points but for me consecutive bottom half finishes with the money he's spent and players he inherited would be a bridge too far.

Good post, and is much better put than most who just want Bobby gone.

Im far from happy, but Im not ready to sack him, I see the positives out-weight the negatives, just about.

 

[Latchford78]

Not often I agree with Joey Barton, but he's hit the nail on head here AFAIC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03jp7f4

 

[Bungle]

How? Enlighten me please. Like 20 wins in 64 league games right Bungle?

I'm talking generally mate, don't make me vault the Luke Garbutt thread for a start. You said he had promise and we had left back covered for the next 10 years with him and Oviedo, then you labelled him Gosling MKII on more than one occasion because he didn't personally give you a call to announce his new Everton contract and you absolute pissed yourself in a fit of rage.

Seeing as I bring Gosling up, he's not doing too bad either, not setting the world alight but more than holding his own as a Premiership player, contrary to what you believe. So yeah, there's just 2 examples mate.

 

[Kev50]

I understand what Barton means when he says Everton petrify him. We are now in a position where it is only our away form which is keeping us out of a relegation dogfight. Historically we've always been able to say that when things get tough we've always got Goodison to get us through must win games. Now though unless you are firmly relegation fodder, you come To Goodison going for three points. And whereas home form can be depended upon, I Am by no means confident that our away form will continue to be good. I don't think it would take much for teams to think next season, we got three points from these at Their own ground, we will do the same on our own turf

 

[BlueToff]

Perhaps you are right. If only he would admit his mistakes,and try to rectify them, but he keeps making the same mistakes,and is so stubborn and tbh his back room staff don't seem to have any input,I would also like to see more passion from all involved, but it ain't happening.

1. As much as fans would like them to, top managers or managers who wish to be top managers never air their mistakes in public. You didn't see Ferguson do it until months after an issue arose, and you don't see Wenger or Mourinho (other than sulking) or whoever else. They may admit responsibility, but very rarely will they openly admit to mistakes. It signals weakness, firstly to the media and secondly to other managers.

2. He has tried to rectify them by implementing a more defensive method since the turn of the year. He did it notably this season starting at Spurs at home after the Stoke game, and he got slaughtered for it despite us getting a 1-1 draw against what was the best side to come to Goodison so far this season and a game that we ended up finishing on the front foot.

3. He has not kept making the same mistakes. You're wrong, and you - like I - have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. From the outside, since the turn of the year, I think the signs are there that there has been a clear shift to retaining some defensive solidity, and in the last few games before WBA the balance was perfect.

 

[BlueToff]

I understand what Barton means when he says Everton petrify him. We are now in a position where it is only our away form which is keeping us out of a relegation dogfight. Historically we've always been able to say that when things get tough we've always got Goodison to get us through must win games. Now though unless you are firmly relegation fodder, you come To Goodison going for three points. And whereas home form can be depended upon, I Am by no means confident that our away form will continue to be good. I don't think it would take much for teams to think next season, we got three points from these at Their own ground, we will do the same on our own turf

But on the flip side because our away form is so good, it's only our home form (where teams come to frustrate us primarily and when they do open up we usually hammer them, bar a few anomalies like Stoke and Leicester this season) that is keeping us away from being in a fight for top four...

Why are you not confident our away form will continue to be good when it has been consistently excellent all season? Playing away suits us better than playing at home, at the moment.

 

[Caolam]

Martinez is as safe as houses at the moment, we won't sack a manager in the throws of selling g the club. His future is firmly in the hands of the next owners or the present owners if the deal to sell doesn't materialise.
We have 12 games left plus the cup matches. I'm only interested in the league, I don't believe we can win the FA Cup on what I see. If we continue in the same fashion as the last 18 months we will win four games. That will be a mirror image of last season. The manager will have had another season to put his stamp on things and he will have brought in more of "his own players". 12 wins will be no improvement.
If he wins 8 games and Niasse shows promise and we look as if he has moved forward then, yes he has earned another year, I put weight in the League Cup run.
I haven't seen anything that makes me believe we can now win 8 out of 12 when our record is 8 out of 26, but being Everton I am full of hope.
If we finish this season on 12/13 wins then I presume everyone can agree that Martinez base not worked.
I keep saying that to keep doing the same thing over and over again and somehow expect to outcomes to be different is sheer folly.
Keeping Martinez, if we don't improve over the last 12 league games, is just doing what Martinez seems to be doing.

 

[Kev50]

But on the flip side because our away form is so good, it's only our home form (where teams come to frustrate us primarily and when they do open up we usually hammer them, bar a few anomalies like Stoke and Leicester this season) that is keeping us away from being in a fight for top four...

Why are you not confident our away form will continue to be good when it has been consistently excellent all season? Playing away suits us better than playing at home, at the moment.

I think home form can be depended upon more than away form. You have the support of your own fans, and because you are there every other week, you have the opportunity to build up a fortress mentality. Away form is much less dependable.

 

[bluewally]

If we stumble to 7th, then I hope all the Moyes lovers will support Bobby, after all, that's what he delivered.

No one with any sense here has really said they love Moyes or want him back. Simply quoting what he achieved with a lesser squad doesn't equate to that.

What they said was he fairly consistently achieved top 8 and we didn't think that was good enough then and wanted more.

But now it seems expectations have been lowered by bobby and it is acceptable to scrape into top half.

 

[hktoffee]

I'm talking generally mate, don't make me vault the Luke Garbutt thread for a start. You said he had promise and we had left back covered for the next 10 years with him and Oviedo, then you labelled him Gosling MKII on more than one occasion because he didn't personally give you a call to announce his new Everton contract and you absolute pissed yourself in a fit of rage.

Seeing as I bring Gosling up, he's not doing too bad either, not setting the world alight but more than holding his own as a Premiership player, contrary to what you believe. So yeah, there's just 2 examples mate.

Oh is that it? I praised Garbutt for his corner too btw. I labelled someone Gosling mark 2 much to the point that he may go downhill as a PL footballer, which means if Garbutt leaves Everton on a free I think he might follow the trend of Gosling's career because I always think Everton are the right place for development for young footballers. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

If you think Gosling is doing okay it's fine for me (Much like some posters think this club are progressing at the moment). After he left Everton I don't think he has progressed to another level (not well off than playing for Everton I mean). He is back to PL this season playing for Bournemouth and is not tracked by the big boys. He is 26 now.

So you are right on everything? I can be wrong so are you.

 

[BlueToff]

I think home form can be depended upon more than away form. You have the support of your own fans, and because you are there every other week, you have the opportunity to build up a fortress mentality. Away form is much less dependable.

I'm not been funny mate but I don't think the support of our fans has always been a help this year...

Away we just look less nervous and more assured in what we're doing.

Goodison expect results and show they should - but it works both ways. The crowd on Saturday were great, and the players did all they could to get the goal.

Unfortunately it didn't happen, which is frustrating but not the end of the world.

 

[BlueToff]

No one with any sense here has really said they love Moyes or want him back. Simply quoting what he achieved with a lesser squad doesn't equate to that.

What they said was he fairly consistently achieved top 8 and we didn't think that was good enough then and wanted more.

But now it seems expectations have been lowered by bobby and it is acceptable to scrape into top half.

No it's not at all acceptable. But you're acting like it's done and dusted yet it's far from it.

As many have pointed out, a win on Saturday would have us a point behind 6th. As it turns out we're now 11th, but that's how close it is at the moment.

Wait and see before writing him off.

 

[Pabbers]

No one with any sense here has really said they love Moyes or want him back. Simply quoting what he achieved with a lesser squad doesn't equate to that.

What they said was he fairly consistently achieved top 8 and we didn't think that was good enough then and wanted more.

But now it seems expectations have been lowered by bobby and it is acceptable to scrape into top half.

I think the absolute opposite, everyone(well kids and new fans) was made up with Moyes and him getting 7th/8th....like it was a trophy, Moyes lowered expectations.

Bobby come in a blew that expectation away, so when we don't smash teams....people go mad, due to the expectation he has set.

If that was a Moyes team that lost to WBA, with that performance, they would have been applauded off the pitch.