Roberto Martinez discussion

chicoazul · February 16, 2016

micknick said:
No I learnt that on my own.

Lets do this properly then- lets see these reports?

These are the ones I can find on McGeady:

http://sportspayroll.com/aiden-mcgeady-salary-everton-fc/

£21k per week

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...Ovk8AL#q=aiden+mcgeady+salary+everton&start=0

€28k per week (£21,676 per week)

http://www.celebritiesmoney.com/aiden-mcgeady-salary-net-worth-midfield-right-wing-of-everton-fc/

$20k per week

Bit of a theme to the amount there eh.

This is like old Mick before he got promoted and turned into an establishment man.

All it needs is for him to stalk a female through PM for naked snaps and it's like 2008 on here.

Saint Domingo · February 16, 2016

BlueToff said:
But you're acting like Martinez actually wants to fit that same style... but he's replaced the creativity that had been lacking with players like Deulofeu and the real emergence of Barkley this season. They may not be like for like, but they haven't needed to be.

Besic also looks like he could be the player to fill that 'deep-lying' playmaker role in the very near future.

Who knows why RM hasn't favourse Mirallas? I'm not going to take a guess as it would be just that. I'd like to see him more but for whatever reason we haven't and to be honest I don't think he's always the answer anyway.

You listed some players that you thought Martinez should get more out of. I pointed out exactly what he had got out of them. Maybe the fact remains that, even with the mistakes Martinez has made, the squad really isn't all that?

First bold part - the West Brom game was the perfect example of why we need these players. We struggle to break down a parked bus. See Swansea, Liverpool, Leicester, Watford all at home all playing exactly the same way. The league table is also a huge indicator that maybe they do need to be replaced.

Second bold part - if this is true, whose fault is that?

Woolly Blue · February 16, 2016

silent bob said:
Sh1thouse!

Accurate like, but please don't avoid the swear filter
:coffee:

chicoazul · February 16, 2016

Woolly Blue said:
Accurate like, but please don't avoid the swear filter

The correct term he should have used is "Jupiter headed coward who's offered nothing to the forum since 2009".

Lanolin · February 16, 2016

BlueToff said:
But you're acting like Martinez actually wants to fit that same style... but he's replaced the creativity that had been lacking with players like Deulofeu and the real emergence of Barkley this season. They may not be like for like, but they haven't needed to be.

Besic also looks like he could be the player to fill that 'deep-lying' playmaker role in the very near future.

Who knows why RM hasn't favourse Mirallas? I'm not going to take a guess as it would be just that. I'd like to see him more but for whatever reason we haven't and to be honest I don't think he's always the answer anyway.

You listed some players that you thought Martinez should get more out of. I pointed out exactly what he had got out of them. Maybe the fact remains that, even with the mistakes Martinez has made, the squad really isn't all that?

That's completely contradictory.

If the players haven't needed to be replaced the squad must be really good, surely? If the squad isn't really good then clearly we needed to replace the quality players who've left/declined.

BlueToff · February 16, 2016

Saint Domingo said:
First bold part - the West Brom game was the perfect example of why we need these players. We struggle to break down a parked bus. See Swansea, Liverpool, Leicester, Watford all at home all playing exactly the same way. The league table is also a huge indicator that maybe they do need to be replaced.

Second bold part - if this is true, whose fault is that?

I definitely agree that we could do with a similar type of player, but I also don't think in general our issue has been scoring goals. You make a good point about breaking teams down though, although we have seen some joy on that front when Kone and Lukaku have played together this season - which is why I see the logic in that sub the other day as well as the signing of Niasse.

And I meant more as in the players themselves not living up to their full potential. At the end of the day, the manager can only do so much and he wasn't the one who switched off at the back post for their goal or missed a load of chances in front of goal on saturday. But he has made some mistakes and I'm not denying that, but I think the signs have been clear since the turn of the year that he's adapted/starting to change some of the things that fans feel have been holding us back.

silent bob · February 16, 2016

chicoazul said:
The correct term he should have used is "Jupiter headed coward who's offered nothing to the forum since 2009".

I`ll have to write that one down for later.

BlueToff · February 16, 2016

Lanolin said:
That's completely contradictory.

If the players haven't needed to be replaced the squad must be really good, surely? If the squad isn't really good then clearly we needed to replace the quality players who've left/declined.

Hopefully my above response to @Saint Domingo clears your question up mate?

royvernon39 · February 16, 2016

Just changing Howard at the start of the season would have placed EFC 10- 12 points higher up the league.

That alone would have been a season changer. Forget about breaking down teams, not playing to potential, etc. No,
just replacing Howard would have done it. That is the real frustration for me about RM.

Tree13 · February 16, 2016

Bungle said:
I struggle to see the sudden surge in anti Martinez sentiment, I mean I have understood it at various points in the season, but it seems to be more prevalent now than at any other stage, despite the most recent facts being;

4 Games, 3 Wins, 1 loss, 9 Goals Scored, 1 Conceded, defence generally looking more solid and Howard replaced as number 1.

I think some of you just look for the first opportunity to jump on Martinez despite obvious signs of progression.

I think that there's an element of misplaced perception on your part there Bungle. I would suggest that the anti-Martinez sentiment has been around since late 2014, because that's when the regularity of poor results arising from comical defending and tactical inflexibility / stubbornness started becoming apparent.

I see your point about recent facts, but four games is far too small a sample size for any attempt at refuting the suggestion, based on two and a half seasons so far, that Martinez is struggling. Look at the list of rubbish results quoted below, and cast your mind back to some of these games.

Tree13 said:
The "Martinez Out" sentiments have been fuelled not by individual results like the Cup exit to City, or the loss to Swansea. They are, for many people, a culmination of a general dissatisfaction with months of poor tactics leading to far too many dropped points.

Dec 2014: 3-0 loss at Southampton.
Dec 2014: 1-0 loss against Stoke at Goodison.
Dec 2014: 3-2 loss at Newcastle.
Jan 2015:2-0 loss at Hull.
Feb 2015: 2-2 draw with Leicester at Goodison.
March 2015: 2-0 loss at Stoke.
March 2015: 5-2 loss at Kiev.
April 2015: 1-1 draw at Swansea.
May 2015: 3-2 loss at Villa.
May 2015: 2-0 loss to Sunderland at Goodison.
August 2015: 2-2 draw against Watford at Goodison.
September 2015: 0-0 draw at Swansea.
November 2015: 3-3 draw at Bournemouth.
December 2015: 1-1 draw against Palace at Goodison.
December 2015: 1-1 draw at Norwich.
December 2015: 4-3 loss to Stoke at Goodison.
January 2016: 2-1 loss to Swansea at Goodison.
January 2016: 3-1 loss to City (semifinal 2nd leg)

That's quite a run of pony results, an they are regular enough that it prevents us from putting decent run of games together. Yes, we've had some very good ones during that period too, but we need to see the rubbish filtered out if we want to get back into contention for the European spots. I would personally like to be able to enjoy a 2-0 lead, rather than be soiling myself with fear that we're going to lose 3-2. Looking at the list above make me worry that our next three games are the type that Martinez typically loses. If he can keep this winning run going however, and make it six wins from six, that for me will be a sign of improvement.

Lo and behold, we went on to lose against WBA - a game in which Martinez was tactically inflexible and made poor substitutions. There seems to be a pattern emerging with regard to December games too.

chicoazul · February 16, 2016

West Brom beat us 4-0 when we were nearly bottom of the league and I swear David Moyes got less of a hard time.

Bob Elstone · February 16, 2016

Cold, hard facts show that during last two years Martinez hasn't been performing and we've been getting worse.

That squad is massively underperforming under his stewardship and he's had enough time.

chicoazul · February 16, 2016

Bob Elstone said:
Cold, hard facts show that during last two years Martinez hasn't been performing and we've been getting worse.

That squad is massively underperforming under his stewardship and he's had enough time.

Two years ago we were sound, that's not a cold hard fact, it's a misrepresentation.

Kiwi · February 16, 2016

chicoazul said:
Two years ago we were sound, that's not a cold hard fact, it's a misrepresentation.

Two years ago we were on a winning run if I remember correctly, looked like we had a chance of pinching Champions League before we got
Palaced.

We've been a lot better defensively since the turn of the year, keep Howard out of the picture and maintain that and the results will come. Not every team will throw 10/11 men behind the ball for 90 minutes like Pulis's West Brom.

Kiwi · February 16, 2016

By the way, would someone care to explain the criticism that we are one dimensional and don't have a plan B under Martinez?
Can't for the life of me understand that, seems contrary to what I've seen over the last two years of football under him.