Roberto Martinez discussion

[kithnou]

Martinez's signings:

2013/14
Joel (£4m) - in the balance but getting better
Alcaraz (free) - poor, but at least there was no cost out-lay
Del (loan) - success
Kone (£6m) - failure overall
Barry (loan) - success
McCarthy (£13m) - success
Lukaku (loan) - success
McGeady (£0.5m) - dreadful but again, low fee, though he was/is on high wages
Traore (loan) - 1 goal in 2 apps - but no, that was a poor one but it didn't really have an effect either way

2014/15
Besic (£4m) - success
Barry (permanent) - success
Galloway (£4m) - success
Atsu (loan) - poor
Eto'o (free) - turned out poor but at the start seemed like a master-stroke up until xmas time.
Lukaku (£28m) - success
Lennon (loan) - success

2015/16
Holgate (£1m) - one for the future but signs look good
Cleverley (free) - success
Del (£4m) - success
Mori (£9.5m) - success
Rodriguez (£1.5m) - up in the air atm
Lennon (£4.5m) - success
Niasse (£13.5m) - hasn't played yet

So, he's made 23 signings that have/will feature in and around the first team, as well as introducing youth players.

Of those 23, 6 have been poor/not worked out - though even then they have had positive impacts at times - e.g. Eto'o vs Krasnodar and Burnley and Kone at the start of this season.

So, perhaps not 80% of his signings, but the majority of them have been good.

Like Moyes before him, one thing that Martinez can't really be criticised for is his work in the transfer market.

"Success" doesn't necessarily mean "an eye for talent" that will take us to where we want to be.
McCarthy, Lennon, Barry, Cleverley for example. Taking us to the top 4?

 

[Mo' Better Blues]

That's fine mate. McCArthy can stay but not with Barry and Cleverley in the 11. My point with him is that many in here have him being a world class player.
I don't see him being in our starting 11 in a team that finishes top 4.
I hope I am wrong. I have been many times before.
Just look at my profile pic as proof

....fair enough, but again to use the Tottenham analogy Dier and Dembele, currently 2nd, can see a McCarthy and Besic pairing being just as effective, and I wouldn't see much difference between Macca and Coquelin at Arsenal either, I'd never suggest he's world class, but do reckon he could be a part of a successful team....

 

[kithnou]

This was fun when it started. I can see the merits in both sides of the Martinez debate.

However, IMHO, this has turned into something akin to the labour of Sisyphus.

Can we not all just give it a rest??

Correct mate. On that note I'm off to bed

 

[kithnou]

....fair enough, but again to use the Tottenham analogy Dier and Dembele, currently 2nd, can see a McCarthy and Besic pairing being just as effective, and I wouldn't see much difference between Macca and Coquelin at Arsenal either, I'd never suggest he's world class, but do reckon he could be a part of a successful team....

we better get 5 or 6 guns around them like those other clubs then quickly mate

 

[The Mighty Quint]

I struggle to see the sudden surge in anti Martinez sentiment, I mean I have understood it at various points in the season, but it seems to be more prevalent now than at any other stage, despite the most recent facts being;

4 Games, 3 Wins, 1 loss, 9 Goals Scored, 1 Conceded, defence generally looking more solid and Howard replaced as number 1.

I think some of you just look for the first opportunity to jump on Martinez despite obvious signs of progression.

If he sorts the defending out he can stay for me, and I've been that hacked off after games this season that I have called for him to be sacked.

But I have definitely seen improvements in the defence, and I think if Jags had not been injured we'd have been a lot better at the back than we had been prior to Xmas.

There are things that Martinez gets wrong, but in my honest opinion, unbiased, he is close to making us a top side IF he addresses the concerns about our defensive record this season, which looks to be getting better looking at the last 4 games.

 

[BlueToff]

"Success" doesn't necessarily mean "an eye for talent" that will take us to where we want to be.
McCarthy, Lennon, Barry, Cleverley for example. Taking us to the top 4?

But if they've been a success, he's obviously got an 'eye for talent'...

And yes, this is a team that should be challenging for top four this season. Due to a combination of things we aren't and that's frustrating. Doesn't mean I want him out or that I'm going to question his transfers. When he spends big money, the signings are usually spot on.

 

[micknick]

What keeps me on side with him is that I have seen us score lots of goals while overall not conceeding as many as we score. I understand that tactic will only go so far- we'll score more than you but I see an excellent side in the making that needs to work on its defence but to me the fine margins of us drawing or losing games isnt just down to Martinez but the players too.

Not many teams have given us a hiding this season and most of our losses have been by the odd goal apart from United and City. We have however drawn far too many games which if you were to change a few of them would paint a very different picture.

 

[Bungle]

If he sorts the defending out he can stay for me, and I've been that hacked off after games this season that I have called for him to be sacked.

But I have definitely seen improvements in the defence, and I think if Jags had not been injured we'd have been a lot better at the back than we had been prior to Xmas.

There are things that Martinez gets wrong, but in my honest opinion, unbiased, he is close to making us a top side IF he addresses the concerns about our defensive record this season, which looks to be getting better looking at the last 4 games.

Agreed mate.

I think the frustration largely comes from the fact that maybe he's been a little slow to compromise on his 'philosophy' and to change things that fans have been calling for over a reasonable period of time i.e. Howard getting dropped. But he's made those calls now and appears to be sorting out the stuff he's been getting stick for. Yet as soon as we lose 1 game, people just completely empty their heads of all the good things he's done and get the pitch forks out.

 

[kithnou]

But if they've been a success, he's obviously got an 'eye for talent'...

And yes, this is a team that should be challenging for top four this season. Due to a combination of things we aren't and that's frustrating. Doesn't mean I want him out or that I'm going to question his transfers. When he spends big money, the signings are usually spot on.

I'd query your definition of success mate. But I'm off to bed. Talk soon

 

[Saint Domingo]

So to cut it short, do you think Roberto Martinez has been a success or not with his transfers?
My response would be that two are keeping him above a fail.

Ultimately no. He's failed to address the key priorities in the squad the goal keeper, and creative replacements for Arteta Pienaar and Osman. We have an unbalanced squad (players in their prime such as Mirallas Fellaini Gibson Naismith Oviedo marginalised or sold off leaving us with a gap between the young and old players).

Although individual quality has improved, collective quality hasn't. Barry McCarthy Cleverley are nowhere near the quality of players like Arteta Pienaar Cahill.

I still think though that he hasn't bought bad players. Another manager could get a lot out of Lukaku Deulofeu Besic Funes Mori Lennon McCarthy Galloway. Doesn't mean Martinez knows how to use them or if they were what the squad needed.

 

[BlueToff]

If he sorts the defending out he can stay for me, and I've been that hacked off after games this season that I have called for him to be sacked.

But I have definitely seen improvements in the defence, and I think if Jags had not been injured we'd have been a lot better at the back than we had been prior to Xmas.

There are things that Martinez gets wrong, but in my honest opinion, unbiased, he is close to making us a top side IF he addresses the concerns about our defensive record this season, which looks to be getting better looking at the last 4 games.

I've been saying for the past few weeks that since the turn of the year we've looked a hell of a lot better defensively.

We had a bad 2 minutes at Chelsea that cost us, though had the linesman and ref done their job it would have been irrelevant.

We were poor against Swansea and then at City in the cup we did to them what WBA did to us the other day in that we sat deep and frustrated them. Even though they got that deflected goal (how many of our shots deflected just wide on Saturday, for example?), we still h held firm for another 50 minutes until a bad decision gave them a goal.

Not to say that the collapse after that is excusable, or that we'd have definitely gone onto win that game, but in that situation up until that point we had done just fine and what we needed to do against a side who brought on of of the best midfielders in Europe at the moment as a substitute.

Since that game, we turned it around with three clean sheets. WBA came to do a job on us and they executed it perfectly, but if not for a few inches here and there it would have been very different. It's not like we didn't create anything, and, as somebody has said comparing us to Arsenal, we were actually creating just as much as they did against Leicester (who again thanks to a very soft decision from our best mate Atkinson were sent down to 10 men a minute after they should have had a second penalty)...

We have had some luck this season, and luck always plays a part. On Saturday ours ran out in that everything we tried didn't come off. It happens, but it seems like some fans were genuinely just waiting for another slip up to jump on his back again.

I've said consistently we as fans need to take it game by game and not get ahead of ourselves either way. The season is far from over and we have shown we can hammer teams, and rarely do we capitulate in terms of not showing any signs that we have enough to win the game (which is an improvement over last season).

Fine margins down to a combination of things - some of which is down to look, some of which the manager, and some of which the players.

 

[Carlito]

....fair enough, but again to use the Tottenham analogy Dier and Dembele, currently 2nd, can see a McCarthy and Besic pairing being just as effective, and I wouldn't see much difference between Macca and Coquelin at Arsenal either, I'd never suggest he's world class, but do reckon he could be a part of a successful team....

I think you're underrating Dembele there.

The only midfielder at Everton with anything close to his level of ability is Barkley.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Martinez really has turned into a massive failure as our manager. Shame, really.

First season based on a solid Moyes' defence and other teams massively underperforming he had a shot at top four, but still had us bottle it in relatively simple home games, and it's all been downhill from there.

Really, really grates that he continues to chat absolute bullschit before and after every single game.

Can only see it getting worse. How will we replace Lukaku, who'll easily pass the 25 goal mark before too long? Nobody of any proven quality is going to want to join us.

 

[BlueToff]

Ultimately no. He's failed to address the key priorities in the squad the goal keeper, and creative replacements for Arteta Pienaar and Osman. We have an unbalanced squad (players in their prime such as Mirallas Fellaini Gibson Naismith Oviedo marginalised or sold off leaving us with a gap between the young and old players).

Although individual quality has improved, collective quality hasn't. Barry McCarthy Cleverley are nowhere near the quality of players like Arteta Pienaar Cahill.

I still think though that he hasn't bought bad players. Another manager could get a lot out of Lukaku Deulofeu Besic Funes Mori Lennon McCarthy Galloway. Doesn't mean Martinez knows how to use them if they were what the squad needed.

But Arteta left two years before he joined? And players in the mould of Pienaar are very hard to find and, actually, are becoming rarer and rare in the Prem when you look at a lot of other teams...

Gibson has had tons of injuries and it has nothing to do with him being marginalised. When he's played he hasn't performed or been able to perform to a high enough level to get ahead of Barry, McCarthy or Besic in the pecking order.

Oviedo, again, has had horrible injuries and has in no way being marginalised. Fellaini was sold because he wanted to leave and we rinsed United for him and used that money to get a quality striker in.

Naismith, again, for all his work ethic, is only suitable in one position and that is where Barkley plays. I think I know who i'd rather have and again we got a great fee for Naismith.

Martinez has got over 50 goals out of Lukaku, he's got over 10 assists out of Del this season who had a torrid time under a different manager last year at Sevilla. Besic, again, has been injured loads this season but when he's played he's been excellent. Rarely has the lad been fully fit and being on the bench so again your argument is a nothing point.

McCarthy, likewise, is in the team to do a job that he often does brilliantly and that is break up opposition play. When he gets forward - which Martinez often instructs him to - he has provided two assists this season - two months of which he has missed.

Funes-Mori has played over 20 games for us in his first season in English football and is now considered genuine competition/a first team regular. He has also scored 3 goals and got a couple of assists.

Galloway, again, is 19 years old and has now made over 20 appearances in the Premier League. He's a full back who is going to be a centre back. Tell me what more RM could have got out of him at this stage?

 

[BlueToff]

I think you're underrating Dembele there.

The only midfielder at Everton with anything close to his level of ability is Barkley.

Dembele is a fantastic player.

Had a rough year or two but he's found his form again and that has corresponded with Spurs' rise up the table.

For all their good young players, until Dembele (aged 28) came into the side, they were struggling to turn draws into wins.