Tim Howard

[mlyons]

Not at all. We agree he's not good enough. I don't actually blame Howard. He doesn't pick himself..

Right. My only real issue is with people who think he's the worst keeper in the league, because the implication is if we replaced him with someone like Begovic or Marshall we'd be in the top 4. The defensive problems run much deeper than that.

 

[Joey66]

Fine, so let's get someone better. Not someone who's different just for the sake of being different.

We need someone who's better than Howard, and the answer to who that might be is a lot more complicated than "anybody".

Joel Robles is the obvious choice, and if he is as bad as Tim we know we have to buy a keeper in January!

 

[Groucho]

I'm not putting a definitive points tally on it, but Howard has not been on top form this season, and possibly last season.

Whether Robles would've made a difference we'll never know but last season he had 3 games on the run and kept 3 clean sheets. For me, he deserved a run then.

Now that (for most people) Howard is less than excellent, surely it's time to give Joel a try? Otherwise what's the point in him being here?

I'll admit we probably compare every goalie to Nev, who was the best in the world (tm) so all goalies will fall short of our idol but for me and a lot of others, Tim Howard is not playing well - Martinez may even be damaging his confidence by not giving him a break.

I think this is unfair. Nigel Martyn was almost universally loved at Goodison. He wasn't in Southall's league but he did the simple things well, he worked on his weaknesses and he gave his all for Everton. As a result, he is widely considered our best keeper since Nev. Evertonians don't demand perfection, just effort and improvement. The problem a lot of us have is we don't see this Howard.

I wasn't unfair to Nigel Martyn there at all. I agree he's been the best we've had since Southall.

Southall was the best in the world and was best - that's not being unfair to Martyn or any of them. He was simply the best in the world.

My original point was that I feel Howard is underperforming, and a change may benefit both the team, and his confidence.

 

[Groucho]

Is Howard good enough for our club going forward? Clearly not -- he's a mid-table quality keeper now and one of the oldest players in the league.

Is Joel a better option?

Surely the bold part is the answer to the last sentence there?

If Howard is not good enough as you admit, and Robles hasn't looked dodgy when he's been in (last seasons' 3 clean sheets consecutively for eg.) then that suggests to me Robles deserves a chance. Even on a "he can't be any worse" basis.

Why play a player who isn't good enough on current form?

 

[ToffeeTim]

Can't help but feel tomorrow is a big day for Martinez tomorrow in terms of keeping the majority of the fanbase onside. If he persists with howard, and we don't get a result, I sense a considerable change in the mood.

Surely he must have the guts to make a change? After all Joel was his signing. I'm finding it all quite baffling at the minute.

 

[steken1]

Right. My only real issue is with people who think he's the worst keeper in the league, because the implication is if we replaced him with someone like Begovic or Marshall we'd be in the top 4. The defensive problems run much deeper than that.

There are other issues. The fact that his defenders don't trust him is massive though. Don't underestimate how much that affects them and how they play.

My belief is he's the worst in the league. If you can name a few you see as worse?

Replacing him with the likes of Begovic would be massive.

 

[Joey66]

He played five matches in four years for four different Spanish youth teams. He's never been first choice. Anywhere, really.

Apart from winning in the FA cup final with a relegated team!

 

[mlyons]

There are other issues. The fact that his defenders don't trust him is massive though. Don't underestimate how much that affects them and how they play.

My belief is he's the worst in the league. If you can name a few you see as worse?

Replacing him with the likes of Begovic would be massive.

Ruddy, Stekelenburg, Pantilimon, Mignolet, Myhill, Guzan, Fabianski -- that's just among keepers who have started the majority of their club's matches this season. Begovic was also pretty clearly worse than Howard this season, albeit in a small sample.

 

[mlyons]

Apart from winning in the FA cup final with a relegated team!

He wasn't Martinez's first choice then, either, though. He was Wigan's cup keeper, just like he's our cup keeper now.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

He wasn't Martinez's first choice then, either, though. He was Wigan's cup keeper, just like he's our cup keeper now.

Except he displaced Al Habsi in the league

 

[Walken]

Ruddy, Stekelenburg, Pantilimon, Mignolet, Myhill, Guzan, Fabianski -- that's just among keepers who have started the majority of their club's matches this season. Begovic was also pretty clearly worse than Howard this season, albeit in a small sample.

keep aiming high mate, we don't need to replace howard, he's better than guzan

 

[Joey66]

He wasn't Martinez's first choice then, either, though. He was Wigan's cup keeper, just like he's our cup keeper now.

See thread below get your facts right!
Robles ousted the no 1 keeper unlike hear!

 

[ijjysmith]

I don't get why we compare him to other keepers?

I don't care about other keepers really. O care about ours. And he's not good enough.

Hope he plays a blinder tomorrow

 

[ijjysmith]

Has he ever said that?

And the first season here seemed to indicate he's not naive enough to ignore our defence I'd have thought Ijj?

Yes.

And are you saying you agree with everything our manager does because he had a good first season?

 

[mlyons]

See thread below get your facts right!
Robles ousted the no 1 keeper unlike hear!

He ousted him the same way he ousted Howard last season -- al Habsi was injured, so Martinez was forced to play Robles. When al Habsi was healthy again, he was right back into the lineup, which is why Robles was back on the bench in Wigan's final Premier League match. It was the same situation as last season.