Halfway point of the season

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TommyDavo said:
I meant of Dave not Bobby and I reckon me and the former are more aligned about the team requirements even if we disagree on the man to implement them. It's ok to disagree you know, doesn't make you a bad person. Sorry that's to @Blue Cheese. Too old for this
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Tis the interwebz lad, cannot be wrong ever, the world will spin in reverse if i'm wrong.
 

Skeleton Crew said:
for the record...yea. I believe we can.

..but that wasnt the post I made. I said an 8th place finish and a cup win would satisfy my expectations/needs this season.
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Not even confident of 8th either in all honesty think we'll finish 10/11th we haven't the consistency to claw back the 3/4/5 point deficit on the sides above whilst then maintaining results to stay above them over the 2nd half of the season. We ain't won back to back games in like 9 months.

For me im just waiting for the board to sell up finally and hopefully any new owner worth their salt see's martinez as not being the right man to lead us forward and gets rid.
 
I was anti Martinez last season but our keeping players in transfer window along with some very good football convinced me he was improving the team. However 5 points better of than last season and the same problem of sticking with players who are clearly not doing what they are paid to do is sapping the belief.

He seems to not see the problems and is therefore unable to sort them. The turn of the year would seem to be a good time for reflection, he needs to examine what is good and what is bad and try to fix the bad things. I'm sure he doesn't want to have wholesale changes which would upset our attacking ability but surely there is something he can look at to stop every attempt on our goal resulting in a score.
 
Brownie said:
I think Stones is being hung out to dry a little bit at the moment though. He keeps being exposed 1v1 because McCarthy's not there to cover our ridiculously attacking right hand side, and because he's not the quickest, he has to take risks. I think he's done quite well to cope with it to be honest.

The only major flaw he needs to address for me is how he defends the near post: the positions he takes up aren't quite right and he's nowhere near dominant enough. He could do with adding the 'big sidefoot' to his game. Get it out of there, John.
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Ok fair point. But he's not daft or that inexperienced. Given the absence of McCarthy to cover him on his surges forward, he should be sparing about those surges. Too often we've seen him on a wing and a prayer stepping up out wide to the halfway line almost and leaving us with a hole to cover where Coleman should be. If Coleman goes, he shuffles across and he leaves that situation further up the pitch to others.
 
Prevenger17 said:
Dave admitting Jags might improve our situation!?

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Centre half partnerships are often a case of synergy and it's never a simple case of having two good defenders paired together. Jagielka is a solid presence, and has the kind of experience Stones will siphon off in this early stage of his career. Would like him back for the League Cup, if possible.
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Well, sort of!

He's need right now, no question...which isn't the same as saying I rate him as the answer for us.
 

davek said:
Ok fair point. But he's not daft or that inexperienced. Given the absence of McCarthy to cover him on his surges forward, he should be sparing about those surges. Too often we've seen him on a wing and a prayer stepping up out wide to the halfway line almost and leaving us with a hole to cover where Coleman should be. If Coleman goes, he shuffles across and he leaves that situation further up the pitch to others.
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Maybe, but I think it's more to do with how the team's set up. The same thing's happened to Funes Mori a few times on the other side: all of a sudden he's on his own with the whole left side of the pitch to defend because our full backs are jogging back from a lung-busting run up the other end. There's not an awful lot you can do about it as a centre back; you either take a chance and try to close off the danger before it gets going, or back off and wait for support that may or may not arrive. McCarthy coming back in solves a lot of problems.
 
Brownie said:
Maybe, but I think it's more to do with how the team's set up. The same thing's happened to Funes Mori a few times on the other side: all of a sudden he's on his own with the whole left side of the pitch to defend because our full backs are jogging back from a lung-busting run up the other end. There's not an awful lot you can do about it as a centre back; you either take a chance and try to close off the danger before it gets going, or back off and wait for support that may or may not arrive. McCarthy coming back in solves a lot of problems.
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These things were happening (the Mori/Stones forays out wide) when we've had the two usual CMs in there though. Either they're being indisciplined or the set up has changed - the CMs do less covering out wide. I think it's the former...and I think it's the result of a very young backline taking no guidance from within the four or behind them in the goal....no offered guidance, that is. We have chronic communication in this team. I've always castigated Jagielka over it, but it's a general issue for the whole defence.
 

davek said:
Maybe this thread could be used for any thoughts people have on performance and expectations (what's gone on/how we've performed in the first half of the season and how it matches/surpasses/falls short of their expectations) and what can be expected in the second half of the season?

I'll kick it off in terms of a look at where we've been before at previous season halfway points (last decade) and where we eventually ended up.

Halfway position and points (and in brackets end of season position and points):

2015/16 10th 26pts (................)
2014/15 12th 21pts (11th 47pts)
2013/14 4th 37pts (5th 72pts) EL Qualification
2012/13 6th 33pts (6th 63pts)
2011/12 11th 24pts (7th 56pts)
2010/11 11th 22pts (7th 54pts)
2009/10 11th 22pts (8th 61pts)
2008/09 6th 29pts (5th 63pts) EL Qualification
2007/08 6th 33pts (5th 65pts) EL Qualification
2006/07 8th 27pts (6th 58pts) EL Qualification

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This season so far fits in pretty much with the average of the decade at halfway mark in terms of position and points at the turn.

We're obviously playing great attacking football and Keystone Cops defensive football. It'd be nice to think January would bring movement. We need a decent second striker to slot in when the inevitable Lukaku injury comes along and a GK of any note to take over from Howard - although the latter looks unrealistic.

I'm standing by my 60+ point finish and good cup runs as the benchmark of a good season. We'll get them and it'll be a very decent marker down by a developing young team.
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Thanks for keeping the perspective,always very useful.
So,at the very worst for a decade we drop one place at halfway point of the season compared to the seasons final standings?
At the best we rise four places?
I`m keeping the faith for now.

hktoffee said:
No point of using stats pre 2013 Martinez isn't Moyes. Moyes usually got the team getting more points in the second half of season doesn't mean Martinez can do better nor do any worst. They don't have a link, at all.
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But it shows a statistical tendency. Always useful. Shows probability.


savillesu11s said:
I don't want to hear statistics, I prefer opinions. The league has become so saturated since the TV deal that it would be misleading to compare points across different seasons. Arsenal, ManCity, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, ManUtd, Spurs, Newcastle, Southampton and Hull constituted the top half 24 months ago and only Spurs have accumulated more points this season of those teams (1 additional point that is). The issue is that Martinez couldn't organise a bacon butty never mind a premier league defence.
As y'all have said consistently, we keep making the same mistakes and that's what is so alarming. I kept the faith last season, which only seems to have compound the hardship and torment I've got to endure as talented defenders concede time and time again. But he's definitely the right man for the job so pipe down you at the back
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Thinnk you`ll find yourself quite lonesome with that opinion.Sorry :)
 

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