Roberto Martinez discussion

PhilEFC · December 28, 2015

The squad he has got together is very good, probably our best since the 80's (apart from the goalie). It seems he hasn't got a clue how to get the best out of them.

Allezfan · December 28, 2015

Shagster said:
I just need to ask...have we scored more goals per season under RM than under DM? I have no idea but I suspect its' not wildly different?

In the league. 48 goals last year, 61 in his first, and we're on course for 70 this year. So average of 60 goals a seaosn.

In Moyes last 3 seasons, we scored 51, 50 and 55. So average of 52 goals.

The three before that we got 60, 55 and 55. So average of 57 goals.

The three before 52, 35 and 45. So average of 44 goals.

So yeah slightly better under Martinez.

Dymak · December 28, 2015

The Esk said:
One of the primary reasons that expectations are reducing is that competition in the PL Is greater now than it was 5 and certainly 10 years ago.

Not only have the big 4 grown stronger as revenues and investment pile in, other clubs Spurs, Stoke, Crystal Palace have benefited from decent balance sheets, decent P&L accounts and importantly investment.

In the meantime we have traded +/- small operating profits, sometimes transfer related profits, debt reduction and no investment.

We have performed a miracle to produce the results we have on the pitch over the last 15 years, however we have been taken over resource wise by so many clubs and this is now reflected in our expectations.

That's the legacy of this board and the reason new owners with the ability to invest significantly (not through debt) is so important now. Every year that goes by makes the job of the incoming owners more difficult.

It is true to say more clubs are able to compete through spending more money than ever before, but I don't agree that the disparity between Everton's transfer expenditure and our top half rivals has increased. Everton's recruitment expenditure has also increased massively.

Martinez isn't working under anywhere near the constraints that Moyes was. Moyes went two and a half seasons without buying a first team player, and most clubs were spending far more than Everton during his tenure.

GwladysBlue · December 28, 2015

I think the only way back for Martinez with a lot of fans now is if he drops Tim Howard.

He has to show us at least some sort of reaction to this abysmal defending.

Personally, I think he is too far gone. If the rumours are true and new owners are imminent, he will be facing the bullet at the end of the season.

ijjysmith · December 28, 2015

Shagster said:
The manager is responsible for everything

That's not totally true.

catcherintherye · December 28, 2015

TheHumbleEgg said:
What's especially grim is it's lifted from an article a year ago, after defeat to STOKE...

http://www.theguardian.com/football...nez-not-alter-everton-playing-style-poor-form

I do understand what he is saying. I've had managerial roles and can honestly say trying to alleviate a fear of failure is very important. However there are limits to this. There has to be an accountability otherwise you can end up repeating the same mistakes. This is where we are now at I fear!

nsno-chris · December 28, 2015

16 wins in 51 games

TheHumbleEgg · December 28, 2015

daz4matty said:
A year on and we have stagnated.
Its going to be scary when the better teams come calling

....a year on and he's STILL mulling the GK situation over.

Imagine that, such an assertive, forward thinking manager, still having a big think 12 months on...

If he is like.

*isn't.

Dario Terracotta · December 28, 2015

The Esk said:
If we had the resourced say of Liverpool or Tottenham would we have chosen Martinez as manager to replace Moyes in 2013?

The answer is no. Martinez is doing a superb job in creating an attacking team playing the best football in the PL at present going forward. But he has a fundamental weakness - he cannot coach defending to save his life. He's flawed until.he learns that aspect of the game.

To quote Sir Alex "Attack wins you games, defence wins you titles."

Get TD back to the club to teach 'em all the defensive arts Esk

lol

Saint Domingo · December 28, 2015

kenada_blue said:
Yep.

Every manager has a style. It's what they do.

The best managers change.

The top managers can do both. They may have a preference (Mourinho valued defence, Ferguson attack) but they never disregard the other. They create balanced sides. It's no surprise that we're good going forward when we disregard our defensive duties.

The Esk · December 28, 2015

joger said:
If this takeover completes and they invest into the team do you think that they will be looking at a new manager then?

Possibly, that depends upon their investment plans. They might consider going for a defensive coach. Martinez does so many things well, he has ability without doubt, he just needs help where he is weak.

kenada_blue · December 28, 2015

davek said:
What, keeping Distin and Alcarez would have been a good thing? They offered nothing.

This is all present mindedness mate. A month ago or so everyone was singing the praises of Funes Mori and Stones and Galloway; we hit a bumpy road and it's all fume and doom.

I cant take it seriously.

We beat Spurs next week and all these people screaming blue murder now will disappear or start talking about the CL spots.

It's pitiful. You have to laugh really. The fickleness of it all.

Martinez is here. He'll stay here. He'll sort the GK spot out and we'll be ok.

End of story really.

Never said that. Said he got rid of them and never replaced experience.

Yes, Mori etc were praised. Praised for coming in and not looking out of place in the top flight. Then sides clocked on to their weaknesses and have exploited it. 3 good young players who are calm and like to pass the ball out of defence. What do you do? Wait for them to make a mistake and kill em. Bully them in the air. Done.

What you do in that situation is stick in a experienced defender to help them out, to spot the danger. He has 1 of them in Jagielka. He's injured, he's got no one. Hence we get battered.

Martinez' style is possession and scoring goals. Lose possession, don't score, we lose or scrape draws.

And good luck getting anything against Spurs.

daz4matty · December 28, 2015

TheHumbleEgg said:
....a year on and he's STILL mulling the GK situation over.

Imagine that, such an assertive, forward thinking manager, still having a big think 12 months on...

If he is like.

*isn't.

Its awful management simple as that.
I cannot imagine another manager going with howard this season just shows he is weak

Shagster · December 28, 2015

The Esk said:
If we had the resourced say of Liverpool or Tottenham would we have chosen Martinez as manager to replace Moyes in 2013?

The answer is no. Martinez is doing a superb job in creating an attacking team playing the best football in the PL at present going forward. But he has a fundamental weakness - he cannot coach defending to save his life. He's flawed until.he learns that aspect of the game.

To quote Sir Alex "Attack wins you games, defence wins you titles."

I'm not convinced he is even aware of this issue - let alone learning to resolve it.

Shagster · December 28, 2015

Allezfan said:
In the league. 48 goals last year, 61 in his first, and we're on course for 70 this year. So average of 60 goals a seaosn.

In Moyes last 3 seasons, we scored 51, 50 and 55. So average of 52 goals.

The three before that we got 60, 55 and 55. So average of 57 goals.

The three before 52, 35 and 45. So average of 44 goals.

So yeah slightly better under Martinez.

Cheers Allez