Roberto Martinez discussion

[Tubey]

We're not financially strong enough to be demanding Europe every year. Some years, sure. Expecting it every year is a false sense of entitlement.

It should be the aim every year, and falling well off it two years on the bounce is grounds for sacking on the basis of failure in my view.

These are the only sides I'll accept finishing behind - City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool. No one else, and that's based on finances and their recent history.

This season, Leicester will finish above us, so that's seven sides at this point that could finish above. I'll accept that. That's why I'd class 7th as a "success" at this point, as you're displacing a club that could foreseeably finish above you.

8th would be par, but after a poor season last year par is not good enough for me. I want to see progression. There's no excuse either - no Europe, no "period of transition" - nothing. So, for me, it's 7th, or it's failure. Certainly anything below 8th is total failure.

 

[mythbuster]

This annoys me, this statement is a agenda filled fallacy.

It is absolutely NOT a false sense of entitlement no one is saying WE SHUD WIN DA LEAGUE LA, challenging for europe, which is something for the main we have done for the best past of the past 12-13 years, whilst improving on the squad from then... which means we SHOULD be challenging for europe, infact with the first team we have we absolutely should, that should be the aim, if not higher and not finishing in those positions is a absolute failure.

We are in a position to challenge. I said expecting to achieve it every season is a false sense of entitlement

 

[dannyboy]

We're not financially strong enough to be demanding Europe every year. Some years, sure. Expecting it every year is a false sense of entitlement.

I'm sorry but that squad is more than capable of competing for the European spots. We know about the financial constraints but that never stopped us in the past.

It's hilarious to see so many on here advocate Moyes leaving to move onto the next level and then accept us going backwards so easily. Because right now if you're pleased with a mid table finish is exactly what you're doing.

 

[Lowste]

Off the wall, I know, but regarding Stones I'm beginning to get an inkling that there is a Glenn Hoddle type in him...probably unlikely, because he is firmly categorised as a central defender, but it would be interesting if his career took a turn.
In 'the modern game' there are so many 'great defenders' with the worst aspect of their game being actual defending.

A defender for me who will be suited to playing Spanish football, for one of the big two

 

[ijjysmith]

I'm sorry but that squad is more than capable of competing for the European spots. We know about the financial constraints but that never stopped us in the past.

It's hilarious to see so many on here advocate Moyes leaving to move onto the next level and then accept us going backwards so easily. Because right now if you're pleased with a mid table finish is exactly what you're doing.

Is it though?

Starting line up yes easily. Squad? I'm not so convinced.

 

[Lowste]

You're trying to change the goalposts for little reason. Anything below 7th is a failure.

I always say between 5th & 8th

 

[mythbuster]

It should be the aim every year, and falling well off it two years on the bounce is grounds for sacking on the basis of failure in my view.

These are the only sides I'll accept finishing behind - City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool. No one else, and that's based on finances and their recent history.

This season, Leicester will finish above us, so that's seven sides at this point that could finish above. I'll accept that. That's why I'd class 7th as a "success" at this point, as you're displacing a club that could foreseeably finish above you.

8th would be par, but after a poor season last year par is not good enough for me. I want to see progression. There's no excuse either - no Europe, no "period of transition" - nothing. So, for me, it's 7th, or it's failure. Certainly anything below 8th is total failure.

So you're saying no other club outside the 'big 6' should ever finish above us? Not gonna happen I'm afraid. Not in a league as competitive as this.

 

[AaronTheBlue]

We are in a position to challenge. I said expecting to achieve it every season is a false sense of entitlement

But it absolutely is not a false sense of entitlement, it's what we should be aiming for, and anything less than that is failure.

 

[Tubey]

So you're saying no other club outside the 'big 6' should ever finish above us? Not gonna happen I'm afraid. Not in a league as competitive as this.

We've made it competitive by not pushing on. Sides below us have achieved greater success than we have.

We are therefore failing by definition under Martinez at the juncture. That's the point. He needs to not fail and push us on beyond the chasing pack.

 

[mythbuster]

I'm sorry but that squad is more than capable of competing for the European spots. We know about the financial constraints but that never stopped us in the past.

It's hilarious to see so many on here advocate Moyes leaving to move onto the next level and then accept us going backwards so easily. Because right now if you're pleased with a mid table finish is exactly what you're doing.

We ARE in a position to challenge. We are 6 points off top 4, ffs. I said we shouldn't expect to achieve it every year. Moyes couldn't get it every year, not sure why Martinez should have a different benchmark, until we start investing above and beyond the tv money that everybody has.

 

[Lowste]

It should be the aim every year, and falling well off it two years on the bounce is grounds for sacking on the basis of failure in my view.

These are the only sides I'll accept finishing behind - City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool. No one else, and that's based on finances and their recent history.

This season, Leicester will finish above us, so that's seven sides at this point that could finish above. I'll accept that. That's why I'd class 7th as a "success" at this point, as you're displacing a club that could foreseeably finish above you.

8th would be par, but after a poor season last year par is not good enough for me. I want to see progression. There's no excuse either - no Europe, no "period of transition" - nothing. So, for me, it's 7th, or it's failure. Certainly anything below 8th is total failure.

I agree with the 6 clubs you mention, I always throw a wildcard in there. Last year Southampton this year Leicester.
I think one point you do miss is the age group of some of our players, rightly or wrongly it has to be accepted youth can backfire on you when experience is needed

 

[Tubey]

We ARE in a position to challenge. We are 6 points off top 4, ffs. I said we shouldn't expect to achieve it every year. Moyes couldn't get it every year, not sure why Martinez should have a different benchmark, until we start investing above and beyond the tv money that everybody has.

Which is what I said - I expect us to finish bare minimum 7th and go beyond that probably.

That's why I'm classifying what would be failure in my eyes. I see any attempt to redefined the goalposts and say something like 9th/10th is "OK" as ridiculous.

 

[dannyboy]

Is it though?

Starting line up yes easily. Squad? I'm not so convinced.

So Palace, Watford, Leicester and West Ham have better squads than us? I don't think they do but if that's the case then it'll be because we've got the likes of Hibbert, Pienaar and McGeady sitting around scratching their balls and picking up a wage.

 

[mythbuster]

We've made it competitive by not pushing on. Sides below us have achieved greater success than we have.

We are therefore failing by definition under Martinez at the juncture. That's the point. He needs to not fail and push us on beyond the chasing pack.

Sorry mate, but I disagree. Palace are level with Spurs, above liverpool, Chelsea and Man U. Leicester are top, ffs. It's just a very, very, competitive league. Not sure how "WE'VE made it competitive by not pushing on"

 

[dannyboy]

We ARE in a position to challenge. We are 6 points off top 4, ffs. I said we shouldn't expect to achieve it every year. Moyes couldn't get it every year, not sure why Martinez should have a different benchmark, until we start investing above and beyond the tv money that everybody has.

I look forward to the challenge. Right now we look more likely to slip into the lower reaches of mid table given the upcoming fixtures and our record against the top teams.