Roberto Martinez discussion

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mini-Blues x 2 said:
Can he not see he has to be pro active and not reactive. Come on martinez listen to us fans. Is he just thinking because moyes was consistant in winning us nothing he can do the same. ok we got the semis coming up..is that what keeping him going or in a job. How many more years have we blues got to wait for a succesful change.
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If he listened to us fans.. Romelu would of been sold by now for about 10m.. As everyone hated him. Haha
 

Prevenger17 said:
Aye, the sight of the administrator of this good forum plotting and knee-jerking with the best of them was a bit sad.
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I thought the term 'Plotter' was used exclusively for those who knew he wasn't good enough fron the start, not those that have allowed Mr. Martinez to prove it in the mean time?

Is it now if you acknowledge our results aren't good enough and realise the man at the helm has the best squad we have had in the modern era (to his credit).

Are you then a plotter also?
 
I'll be called a plotter for this but i fully agree with these sentiments by Patrick Costigan on the Echos comment page.I felt Martinez was the cheap option at the time when he was appointed when there was better candidates available.

The season before this we started with TIC TAC TOE. The players lobbied Martinez and said we wont to play more direct football. Doubts formed in my mind then . Given a goalkeeper kept THREE clean sheets and was dropped when Howard was fit was even commented on upon by our late great Howard Kendal. Martinez then played Alcaraz in Kiev he was chosen over John Stones,most likely it may not have made too much difference to the result apart from John Stones having experienced the importance of a European away game in a very hostile atmosphere. For me,anyone who wants to rah rah our Manager and get behind him I hope you find my comments are constructive criticism,certainly no knee jerk reaction here. Martinez does not have enough top flight experience and its showing in our results. I'll be happy to get a better manager especially considering there are good candidates already at the club.
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Prevenger17 said:
Aye, the sight of the administrator of this good forum plotting and knee-jerking with the best of them was a bit sad.

Getting back on topic, what do you reckon Martinez needs to do turn it around? A list of 5 things please.
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TBH I just started writing a list and I realised I was just spouting the same stuff that's been said by 100+ other posters. I don't think he's capable, their are too many worrying traits. I hope I'm proved wrong not for Martinez but for Everton and our fans, I say I hope I'm proved wrong because as has been correctly pointed out he is here for the long term, of that their is no doubt. The only way he would go was if their was a change of ownership and the form persisted.

Their are things that he could try. Getting the players fitter for one, too many games this season a few of our players seem to be struggling in the later stages of the game, with no EL excuse this season.

He could ease up on playing Kone and Howard, the former would be an easier decision than the later, I'm sure once MaCarthy is back Ckeverley will return to the left but Kone won't return to the right because of Deulofeu' form.

He could make subs before the momentum of the game gets too far away from us, I was at the Aston Villa game in 13/14 and in the first half we stunk the place out, we were atrocious and a goal behind, the only thing worse than our teams performance was Barkley's and he got hooked at HT Osman came on and we went on to win 2-1 and were much better in 2nd half. Osman also changed the away fixture that season TBF he was bought on at 0-0 and we went on to win 2-0. That was a big feature of that season, when was the last time he made a sub that completely turned the tide of a game in our favour? And that only adds to the frustration when people, including myself, say we have the best squad we have had, the options must be avaliable to him.

He could stop treating fans like idiots in the post game interviews, I know what he says to us after a bad result won't be what he says to the players, I'm also not expecting him to push any individual under a bus either, but like someone quoted Alan Ball the other day 'you can't kid Evertonians' he also said 'Once Everton has touched you nothing else is the same' just thought I'd throw that in there

Opinions on performances can by interpreted by individuals' mindsets when forming them, someone can say 'we were scintillating V Norwich' and someone could come right back at them and say 'but not in the 2nd half and you'll get nowhere by only playing for 45 in the PL' both opinions could be construed as being valid, but stats don't lie

  • 2 wins in 10
  • 6 wins in 90 minutes in 20 games this season
  • 17 wins V PL opposition in all comps since Leicester on opening day 14/15 (59 games)
  • 19 clean sheets in last 72 competitive games in all comps compared to 20 in his first 42
  • In the past 18 months we have lost 26 points from winning positions
  • Won 12 league games this calendar year from 36 games
  • Gained just 70 points from last 165 available
  • Has on form the second most in form striker in the league (statistically) we are 10th... The most inform striker (statistically) his team are top
These are a few stats and I'm sure someone will say that I can do anything with stats, but the ones above are all accurate.

I also think it's important to note that us losing to Leicester doesn't make me any more right or wrong than I was on Friday evening, it's a much bigger picture than that, the same way the ones who dismiss the past 18 months as being 'just fine' would therefore be hypocrites if they'd of told me, had we won yesterday, that it had done his proved Martinez' had us 'back on track'

He's a manager with no sustained time of being relatively successful in this league he had one season with us the rest he has spent underachieving, aside from winning the FA cup (which Im sure some will jump on me for) people will also say he didn't have the calibre of player to Keep Wigan in the league, I'd counter that by saying he has the talent at his disposal to achieve better stats than those listed above.

That said.....should he win us the League Cup he can do what he wants with Everton for the rest of the season, except relegate us.
 

IMO, from studying a lot of coaches across a lot of different sports, the ones that are at the helm of teams “just under the elite tier” (à la Everton 5-8th) only become successful through being bold and strategic. Although charming and sharing a great relationship with the players; this is something I feel Martinez lacks. It shouldn’t take 4 bad Kone games in a row for him to realise (if he even has) that he needs to be dropped; be bold enough to drop him after 1 or 2. Be bold enough to put robles in goal over the aging Howard, be bold enough to put Baines in midfield and show faith in Galloway, be bold enough to pair Barkley with Rom and let them wreak havoc. *Etc etc etc*. Bold and proactive - not reactive - decisions are what give the “2 tier” teams the needed edge to be successful. A lot of the time Martinez seems the politically correct/private schoolboy (for lack of a better term) type lacking such boldness. Am I the only one that feels this?

*Suggested bold moves for discussion sake - ceeebs debating them.
 

At the start of the season would you have taken 6pts off 4th after 17 games with injuries to key players and playing kids every game + a league cup semi?

ianefc said:
TBH I just started writing a list and I realised I was just spouting the same stuff that's been said by 100+ other posters. I don't think he's capable, their are too many worrying traits. I hope I'm proved wrong not for Martinez but for Everton and our fans, I say I hope I'm proved wrong because as has been correctly pointed out he is here for the long term, of that their is no doubt. The only way he would go was if their was a change of ownership and the form persisted.

Their are things that he could try. Getting the players fitter for one, too many games this season a few of our players seem to be struggling in the later stages of the game, with no EL excuse this season.

He could ease up on playing Kone and Howard, the former would be an easier decision than the later, I'm sure once MaCarthy is back Ckeverley will return to the left but Kone won't return to the right because of Deulofeu' form.

He could make subs before the momentum of the game gets too far away from us, I was at the Aston Villa game in 13/14 and in the first half we stunk the place out, we were atrocious and a goal behind, the only thing worse than our teams performance was Barkley's and he got hooked at HT Osman came on and we went on to win 2-1 and were much better in 2nd half. Osman also changed the away fixture that season TBF he was bought on at 0-0 and we went on to win 2-0. That was a big feature of that season, when was the last time he made a sub that completely turned the tide of a game in our favour? And that only adds to the frustration when people, including myself, say we have the best squad we have had, the options must be avaliable to him.

He could stop treating fans like idiots in the post game interviews, I know what he says to us after a bad result won't be what he says to the players, I'm also not expecting him to push any individual under a bus either, but like someone quoted Alan Ball the other day 'you can't kid Evertonians' he also said 'Once Everton has touched you nothing else is the same' just thought I'd throw that in there

Opinions on performances can by interpreted by individuals' mindsets when forming them, someone can say 'we were scintillating V Norwich' and someone could come right back at them and say 'but not in the 2nd half and you'll get nowhere by only playing for 45 in the PL' both opinions could be construed as being valid, but stats don't lie

  • 2 wins in 10
  • 6 wins in 90 minutes in 20 games this season
  • 17 wins V PL opposition in all comps since Leicester on opening day 14/15 (59 games)
  • 19 clean sheets in last 72 competitive games in all comps compared to 20 in his first 42
  • In the past 18 months we have lost 26 points from winning positions
  • Won 12 league games this calendar year from 36 games
  • Gained just 70 points from last 165 available
  • Has on form the second most in form striker in the league (statistically) we are 10th... The most inform striker (statistically) his team are top
These are a few stats and I'm sure someone will say that I can do anything with stats, but the ones above are all accurate.

I also think it's important to note that us losing to Leicester doesn't make me any more right or wrong than I was on Friday evening, it's a much bigger picture than that, the same way the ones who dismiss the past 18 months as being 'just fine' would therefore be hypocrites if they'd of told me, had we won yesterday, that it had done his proved Martinez' had us 'back on track'

He's a manager with no sustained time of being relatively successful in this league he had one season with us the rest he has spent underachieving, aside from winning the FA cup (which Im sure some will jump on me for) people will also say he didn't have the calibre of player to Keep Wigan in the league, I'd counter that by saying he has the talent at his disposal to achieve better stats than those listed above.

That said.....should he win us the League Cup he can do what he wants with Everton for the rest of the season, except relegate us.
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ilikecheese said:
Soz mods...Martinez is the man for the job this season.
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What job? You must have an expectation in mind. What have we done over the first 17 games that is moving is towards this target? Rather than just laughing at other posts them coming out with baseless statements, back some of them up. What is the job you expect of Martinez and how is he achieving it?
 
Zatara said:
At the start of the season would you have taken 6pts off 4th after 17 games with injuries to key players and playing kids every game + a league cup semi?
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First off can I just ask why does everyone keep bringing up this '6 points off fourth'? 6 points is a lot, in fact it's 1/10th of an entire season's haul which Davek has said is very difficult to achieve. We haven't won back to back games in a long time. There are multiple teams ahead of us yet everyone can seemingly quite easily envisage some time in the second half of the season where we not only match the form of the teams currently in fourth (form we haven't displayed for 18 months) but better it by 7 points more than them. A very very tall order. So this 6 points off fourth means absolutely nothing.

Key injuries? Playing kids every game? We've incurred two semi major injuries to Baines and Jags (neither season ruining), big players yes but in positions where we have more than good enough cover in new signing Mori and Oviedo/Garbutt/Galloway.

Apart from the left back slot I don't see where we've played kids every game. Stones Barkley Rom Deulofeu are not kids. They are all plus 20 with years of prem experience now as well as being internationals. If they are inexperienced then Martinez has other options and has made the choice to play them. Some just like to use this to excuse underperformance 'inexperienced kids making mistakes', they've probably been our 4 best players this season, the problem does not lie there even if the convenient imaginary excuse does.

As for the league cup semi I've said before that if Martinez gets past City it will be a massive massive achievement. Scraping past championship sides in extra time or penalties is not a managerial feat though. People making out that Boro away was the most difficult game of Evertobs recent history was laughable.
 

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