Lowste
Player Valuation: £30m
Not touched any ale tonight, may need a couple to work this post out
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Elong
The fire rises
It's all about the philosophy with Bobby brown shoes.He took Wigan down without changing anything to try and keep them up.He saunters into our club boasting about how he will take us to the champions league.He had a good first season and since then results have been patchy at best.For better or for worst Martinez will not back down from his philosophy.He will keep on playing his favourites.We will keep on conceding sloppy goals and the Martinez defenders will continue to offer up excuse after excuse after excuse.Yeah were playing some great stuff but so did Newcastle under Keegan for all the good it did them in the end.
He didn't boast about getting into the champions league, Kenwright said it at the opening press conference and Martinez looked uneasy about it.
They are also in the semi final of the CC? So I guess the answer to the question is yes?
They were in the FA cup final more recently than us as well..
God that's really hit home....depressing....
Question for you,...do you really see us qualifying for the Champions league or winning trophies?
Elong
The fire rises
I don't see them going much further long term. They're peaking in my opinion. Too many fans are after short term goals instead of looking at the bigger picture.
If Martinez fails to bring us joy then I'll happily eat my hat, a hat big enough to fit on Chico's head, but I honestly believe we're on the cusp. That's what makes these results more frustrating.
And yes, I truly believe we will be winning trophies. Champions League? That's tough for anyone who's not financed heavily, I see us being in a Spurs-like situation and nicking a spot here or there, that's our glass ceiling under the current board. That's not Martinez's fault though.
I really hope that we can create something special. Just finding it hard to see at times.
Elong
The fire rises
It's easy to get angry at the result and be short sighted, many, many teams and supporters are like that, look at Monk getting the flick the other day.
Got to stick with it. How long is the real debate I guess? Certainly longer than most teams in my opinion.
Smudge1985
Player Valuation: £950k
Glad Ive just turned 30 so Im old enough to be taken seriously now...
I dont want Martinez out. For the most part, we have improved, going forward especially. I got my first season ticket when Walter Smith was in charge, and well remember games where we would play with four centre halves across the back and two full backs on the wings...if simply missing chances was our problem, I could live with that. Palace and Swansea stand out in particular as games where we completely dominated but just ept missing chances, which can happen to anybody. My problem with Martinez is that he needs to learn when something isnt working, or risk being a stubborn 'my way or the highway' parody of himself like Moyes did.
There are 3 things that Martinez needs to seriously look at himself over:
1) Favourites. Moyes annoyed the hell out of me doing this for years. His defence of Howard borders on insanity, and dropping Robles for him last season was unforgiveable, but we've gone over that a lot of time now. There have been times too where players are clearly struggling for form (a la Barkley and Barry last season) and while we had other players available, they needed to be taken out of the side. But they're his favourites too so they have to start. And then on the flip side, we have players like Mirallas, Naismith, Eto'o, Distin, Gibson etc. who if rumours are to be believed are not being used at all and are starting to get the hump about it. Last few games especially, the likes of Kone, Cleverley and Baines have looked tired after recovering from injuries, but have been left on, rather than using the chance to take them off and give some the lesser used players some game time. When Kone did get a rest too against Boro, Martinez played Cleverley out of position, rather give a chance to Mirallas, Lennon or Naismith.
2) Sort of on the same topic, the subs. I dont know whats happened here, as in his first season, his subs were boss. How many games did we turn around after some pretty creative subs? We've had one or two of those this season too, Kone on the opening day and at West Brom, and Naismith against Chelsea, but for the most part, the subs we make are totally baffling. Both of today's especially. Neither of the replacements were necessarily wrong, but what exactly were we trying to do taking off Barkley and Deulofeu, our two most creative players? Especially when Cleverley and Kone were knackered by this point?
3) Set pieces. Stats dont always tell the full story, but in this case, they absolutely do. We dont score them, we cant defend them. We've scored one set piece all season at Bournemouth, and we look like conceding from every single one. It is now such an obvious weakness, teams are hammering us with crosses and taking advantage of us at corners. Look at the Arsenal game, Ive never seen a team throw so many high balls at us, not exactly something you associate with Arsenal, but it was obvious that was their best way to beat us.
All three of these desperately need to change, because right now, they are holding us back and just undoing all the good he is doing for us. Despite a few games where we are missing chances, scoring hasnt been a problem for us at all. We are the third highest scorers in the League behind City and Leicester. We also however have the joint worst defence in the top 10 and have only kept 4 clean sheets in the League, only one of them since September against an abysmal Villa side. Im sure I saw a stat last week too that we have conceded the most headed goals in the League, which further backs up our set piece problems.
I dont want Martinez out. For the most part, we have improved, going forward especially. I got my first season ticket when Walter Smith was in charge, and well remember games where we would play with four centre halves across the back and two full backs on the wings...if simply missing chances was our problem, I could live with that. Palace and Swansea stand out in particular as games where we completely dominated but just ept missing chances, which can happen to anybody. My problem with Martinez is that he needs to learn when something isnt working, or risk being a stubborn 'my way or the highway' parody of himself like Moyes did.
There are 3 things that Martinez needs to seriously look at himself over:
1) Favourites. Moyes annoyed the hell out of me doing this for years. His defence of Howard borders on insanity, and dropping Robles for him last season was unforgiveable, but we've gone over that a lot of time now. There have been times too where players are clearly struggling for form (a la Barkley and Barry last season) and while we had other players available, they needed to be taken out of the side. But they're his favourites too so they have to start. And then on the flip side, we have players like Mirallas, Naismith, Eto'o, Distin, Gibson etc. who if rumours are to be believed are not being used at all and are starting to get the hump about it. Last few games especially, the likes of Kone, Cleverley and Baines have looked tired after recovering from injuries, but have been left on, rather than using the chance to take them off and give some the lesser used players some game time. When Kone did get a rest too against Boro, Martinez played Cleverley out of position, rather give a chance to Mirallas, Lennon or Naismith.
2) Sort of on the same topic, the subs. I dont know whats happened here, as in his first season, his subs were boss. How many games did we turn around after some pretty creative subs? We've had one or two of those this season too, Kone on the opening day and at West Brom, and Naismith against Chelsea, but for the most part, the subs we make are totally baffling. Both of today's especially. Neither of the replacements were necessarily wrong, but what exactly were we trying to do taking off Barkley and Deulofeu, our two most creative players? Especially when Cleverley and Kone were knackered by this point?
3) Set pieces. Stats dont always tell the full story, but in this case, they absolutely do. We dont score them, we cant defend them. We've scored one set piece all season at Bournemouth, and we look like conceding from every single one. It is now such an obvious weakness, teams are hammering us with crosses and taking advantage of us at corners. Look at the Arsenal game, Ive never seen a team throw so many high balls at us, not exactly something you associate with Arsenal, but it was obvious that was their best way to beat us.
All three of these desperately need to change, because right now, they are holding us back and just undoing all the good he is doing for us. Despite a few games where we are missing chances, scoring hasnt been a problem for us at all. We are the third highest scorers in the League behind City and Leicester. We also however have the joint worst defence in the top 10 and have only kept 4 clean sheets in the League, only one of them since September against an abysmal Villa side. Im sure I saw a stat last week too that we have conceded the most headed goals in the League, which further backs up our set piece problems.
Elong
The fire rises
Some decent points in there. I think he can sort it.
Just wow. We drew...it was frustrating...it was disappointing. On another day we win 4-1...same as the Palace game.
50+ pages ffs.
50+ pages ffs.
Lid I'm a fan of your work but please don't use Sparky ever again.
He needs to get the entire team in this morning and have them work on corners
He also needs to drop Howard
He'll do neither
He also needs to drop Howard
He'll do neither
How many succesful managers do? Most that I can think of have a recognised style, often even a formation, that they stick to and perfect. Sure there is tinkering round the edges but in general they have their ideas and then live or die by them.
Look at any of the boards of the other teams in the league and that is a common complaint that the manager is too stubborn when the team isn't winning - the Chelsea sites want Mourinho to be more attacking and play youth, Man Utds want less possession and more attack and Arsenal's want Wenger to buy decent cover at defensive midfield and striker.
Tbh think to endure the stresses of the position you have to have a certain stubborn faith in youself and your general system, it is when managers abandon it and flail around looking for a new one that often signals the end of their tenure.
Tbf about 20 of the pages are posts like this.
And its actually been a decent read as opposed to last season where it was page after page of martinez out with no constructive criticism
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