Tim Howard

[SpurtingLesbian]

It's an internet forum, mate, and people will vent in extremes. I don't think many of us think Howard is actually completely useless, but it's a build up of frustration because many believe Howard should have been replaced some time ago. We can all see we have an exciting and promising young team and Howard is the weak link.

Look at it another way, most of us would expect Everton to finish in at least the top 8, but have we got one of the top 8 keepers in the league? If you list all the first choice keepers in the PL (including those who've been injured, but would otherwise be first choice, such as Forster at Southampton) I think even the Howard apologists would have trouble disputing that at least half of them are better than Howard (more in my opinion).

The fact you call everyone that doesn't agree with you 'Howard apologists' speaks volumes.
He's not as bad as you are so desperate to make out, he's also not the best keeper in the league by a long way. He is however the best keeper we've got and eroding his confidence + enthusiasm to perform better by booing, demanding he be replaced gets us nowhere.
Bobby knows he needs replacing, and that Joel isn't the answer (or else he'd be in the first team), it's just a case of finding a keeper that's good enough and wants to come here. I doubt it will happen in January (unless it's a loan), but I'd be very surprised if it isn't a priority for next Summer.

 

[LocalNative]

Ok then lets analyse instead the things Howard doesn't do?

Doesn't command his box, doesn't come for anything in the air, doesn't make himself big and instead goes to ground making it easy for a striker against him, doesn't distribute well, doesn't distribute fast enough, doesn't make the correct decision a lot of the time. and maybe the biggest doesn't - he doesn't give the defenders or any team-mate of his any confidence whatsoever.

And who on earth is trying to say Mori is the saviour - it's different saying he has for a new player to this league thrown in after a month or two made a decent start which is fair, Howard has been here for ages mate and he is regressing at an alarming rate from a pretty average level to begin with.

But yeah i think it's fair to instead blame Stones, Mori, Jagielka, Distin, Galloway, Baines, Coleman etc rather than the ever present Howard

My point is, he hasn't been great for the past year or so but to blame him for the goal last night is silly.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

I'd wager that at least a few teams whose back up keeper we would have here in a heartbeat ahead of Howard as well mate Begovic, Ospina, Valdez just off the top of my head

but would they take the pay cut, and would their clubs sell/loan them to use. the only one on that list I can see who's credible would be Valdes, but Utd don't want to sell him to another English Club (possibly a loan until the Summer which buys us a bit of time?)

 

[bluestevon]

The fact you call everyone that doesn't agree with you 'Howard apologists' speaks volumes.
He's not as bad as you are so desperate to make out, he's also not the best keeper in the league by a long way. He is however the best keeper we've got and eroding his confidence + enthusiasm to perform better by booing, demanding he be replaced gets us nowhere.
Bobby knows he needs replacing, and that Joel isn't the answer (or else he'd be in the first team), it's just a case of finding a keeper that's good enough and wants to come here. I doubt it will happen in January (unless it's a loan), but I'd be very surprised if it isn't a priority for next Summer.

thing is mate, you state Howard is the best we've got as a matter of fact, a lot of people would argue with that being the case, I'd rather for one play a keeper who I'm not sure will make a mistake rather than one who i fully expect WILL make a mistake in a game.

 

[bluestevon]

but would they take the pay cut, and would their clubs sell/loan them to use. the only one on that list I can see who's credible would be Valdes, but Utd don't want to sell him to another English Club (possibly a loan until the Summer which buys us a bit of time?)

None of Arsenal, Chelsea, United would realistically (and maybe arrogantly so) see us as a rival to them mate, that's the honest assessment of it

Not saying any of those three would be the answer, and fully expect we will be playing Howard the rest of the season with no activity in January, just hope to God that Martinez actually is just talking bull with what he states about Howard and he knows that it must be a priority to get a top level keeper in during the summer, besides for a few positions depth it is by a million miles the glaring weakness in the starting 11 we have

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Wasn't hard to get better than the worst in the league, no?

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/barclays-pr...st-of-premier-league-keepers-joe-hart-in-best

saves/shot ratio is also a reflection on the defence though. Put any keeper behind a dodgy defence and he'll face more shots and probably let more in. Last season we had Dustbin, Alcatraz and an inexperienced Stones finding his way. More shots to save, perhaps in worse situations gives you a bad ratio.
A good defence generally means less shots and easier shots to save.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

saves/shot ratio is also a reflection on the defence though. Put any keeper behind a dodgy defence and he'll face more shots and probably let more in. Last season we had Dustbin, Alcatraz and an inexperienced Stones finding his way. More shots to save, perhaps in worse situations gives you a bad ratio.
A good defence generally means less shots and easier shots to save.

It'll average out though won't it vs total saves...

You have 10 shots, concede 1 is the same as 100 shots, conceding 10.

 

[bluestevon]

saves/shot ratio is also a reflection on the defence though. Put any keeper behind a dodgy defence and he'll face more shots and probably let more in. Last season we had Dustbin, Alcatraz and an inexperienced Stones finding his way. More shots to save, perhaps in worse situations gives you a bad ratio.
A good defence generally means less shots and easier shots to save.

One thing stats don't show though mate is the type of chances a keeper is saving and difficulty of the saves they make etc, that we can only really judge with our own eyes and Howard doesn not make many saves at all that a keeper at this level wouldn't be expected to, he does let in quite a few that he should be expected to do better against though

plus you can't have a stat that shows command of an area, confidence it instils in those around him etc all of which Howard is poor at

 

[riddick]

I think most, if not all, would agree he needs to be replaced sooner rather than later. He's not getting any younger.


There are at least 3 in the Bundesliga I think would be a significant step up over him, shouldnt cost TOO much either I would think..

 

[bluestevon]

It'll average out though won't it vs total saves...

You have 10 shots, concede 1 is the same as 100 shots, conceding 10.

Honestly mate, stats in some situations should just be ignored for using our own eyes, i didn't need stats for example to tell me Wright was terrible, or that Martyn was amazing, same for Southall, you could see by watching us and them, same with Howard - you can see he is not good enough every single game

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

None of Arsenal, Chelsea, United would realistically (and maybe arrogantly so) see us as a rival to them mate, that's the honest assessment of it

Not saying any of those three would be the answer, and fully expect we will be playing Howard the rest of the season with no activity in January, just hope to God that Martinez actually is just talking bull with what he states about Howard and he knows that it must be a priority to get a top level keeper in during the summer, besides for a few positions depth it is by a million miles the glaring weakness in the starting 11 we have

Ospina and Begovic will play for their clubs and won't be allowed to leave, Valdes won't play, not even in a crisis. The bonus being for UTD that if they loaned him to us then he'd end up not playing against them.
All the players you suggest will all demand European Football as well. We need someone fresh, from another league that's good enough, young enough and wants the challenge

 

[Nobby Nobbs]

Not Howards biggest fan but I wouldn't blame him for that goal last night, he had that big galoot Wickham pinning him to his line he had no chance to come for the ball, and before anyone says he should have gone through him, you try moving someone who is about 6'3" and weighting about 16 stone who doesn't want to be moved. On a slightly different point did I see Howard make a gesture towards the ST end, sorry if it's been mentioned but not read all the thread.

 

[Joey66]

I'd wager that at least a few teams whose back up keeper we would have here in a heartbeat ahead of Howard as well mate Begovic, Ospina, Valdez just off the top of my head

Our back up Keeper may or should get a run so if he plays badly we know Howard is the best option he has looked good in the League cup this season! MOTM v Norwich!

 

[bluestevon]

Ospina and Begovic will play for their clubs and won't be allowed to leave, Valdes won't play, not even in a crisis. The bonus being for UTD that if they loaned him to us then he'd end up not playing against them.
All the players you suggest will all demand European Football as well. We need someone fresh, from another league that's good enough, young enough and wants the challenge

What we need to do mate is finish as high up as we can do this season, win a cup, keep the young talent together and qualify for Europe, add a quality left sided player and then in the summer go all out for Butland - who hopefully has just finished mid table with Stoke

 

[Raino85]

What is his getting on to crosses that come into his 6 yard box that lead to oposition headers catch succesion rate