Relegation Fight 2014/2015

[davek]

To be honest mate all this about Moyes taking us to 17th is a load of bollocks, no offence.

Moyes took a squad that fought relegation every season to 7th then back down to 17th. There was a different attitude because we had a squad that spent its time fighting each year so the squad bar moyes additions was at that level overall.

Martinez has taken a squad that consistently finished top 7 every season apart from twice. We were the best of the rest most seasons considering the fact we never invested to go that step further in the league. We have, on their day, 11 internationals plus 3 international subsitutes to come on during the game. And good countries, england, ghana, belgium, ireland rather than san marino and bolivia. Our record signing has scored morer than anyother young striker in the modern era at his age, we have two young english talent good enough for the first team nationally. We actually invested money this season without selling to pay for it.

The situations are NOT similar. Moyes took a relegation fighting squad to a relegation battle, Martinez has taken a european fighting team to relegation.


And what makes it worse is that he is not even changing anything on the pitch each week to try and fix the problem. GLaringly obvious problems such as playing 3 defensive minded midfielder, playing strikers and midfielders out wide (just to get them on the pitch), no team structure, no creativity in team tactics when getting the ball to the final third...etc

And its not confidence at all, the players are doing as they are told, and that is the problem.

I'm not comparing quality of squads or managerial abilities though. I'm highlighting the position of Everton in one past season to the current one and trying to demonstrate that the situation calls for calm and not panic.

 

[davek]

The thing you're missing Mr K is that there's a number of us who are prepared to accept that we could go down while also not demanding that Martinez lose his job

Indeed, many have in fact said that we'd be prepared to wait and see how things go next season before making our minds up on the matter

People like yourself, who are stubbornly declaring that there's no way we'll be relegated, are in fact doing far more harm than good, especially if that attitude starts rubbing off on the players

We could still very much go down and, until a time comes when we are mathematically safe, we need to be in survival mode. Complacency will kill us in this current situation

Acting like everything is fine onboard while the Ice Bergs loom in the distance does not help at all

This is not a battle of the Martinez Lovers Vs the Martinez Haters

This is a battle between the realists and the deluded, because deluded is what you truly are if you think there's no chance whatsoever of us going down

I've seen too many sides who were "too good to go down" crash and burn to be so bullish in our current situation

This complacency is total, utter death to our survival hopes

Goodison needs to be roaring the lads over the line right now, rather than sitting on their hands because they think we're safe regardless. The Newcastle game needs to be like the Wimbledon game in 93/94 atmosphere wise

People need to wake up and realise we're in the fight. Being all bullish about how we're defo staying up, when it's pitifully clear that it certainly isn't as clear cut, does not make you a better supporter than anybody else (Not suggesting that's YOUR argument btw, but there are some on here who are defo using the fact that other supporters are, quite reasonably, worried about our current predicament as a way to somehow seem superiour to them in some way, which is very galling)

Being worried about relegation is completely natural. To be annoyed that a side this talented is in this situation in the first place is equally as reasonable

This is why you appear to be "cultish"

You're all so desperate to appear"on message" and, rather than argue your stance, you instead decided to just make it look like other supporters are somehow disloyal for worrying that the side they love may in fact be heading for disaster

Appealing for calm and reason about our league position are the traits of a cult leader? Really?

And I'm not advocating complacency, I'm saying we shouldn't react to every bump in the road by screaming that the world's going to end.

 

[Dharma]

MCarthy/Lukaku/Stones/Coleman/Baines/Kev - I count 6 good players, Players that you could see playing in a top 4 side, My mistake saying 4

Look at the rest of our squad Kone/Oviedo/Pienaar/Osman/Mcgeady/Atsu/Distin/Jags/Hibbert/Lennon/Howard/Robles/Alcaraz/Gibson/Besic

It really is a poor squad, Credit to Moyes having us near the top end of the table so often with what he had

All but 2 are Internationals mate, obviously you don't like them but to call them poor is way wide of the mark.
It is what the manager has them doing as a team that is at fault, it just doesn't work in the Premiership.

 

[peteblue]

I'm not comparing quality of squads or managerial abilities though. I'm highlighting the position of Everton in one past season to the current one and trying to demonstrate that the situation calls for calm and not panic.

Exactly. The Europa League has also undoubtedly taken it's toll on performances. I am more than happy to try and win the Europa Cup and finish 17th than just get 5/6/7th in the league.....

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I'm not advocating complacency, I'm saying we shouldn't react to every bump in the road by screaming that the world's going to end.

That's not at all what is happening though

There's a difference between being reasonably worried about something and getting hysterical

I've seen very little hysteria. I've seen concern, and perfectly understandable concern at that

 

[AndyC]

I wouldn't dismiss Kone, Jags, Gibbo and Mo so easily

Kone - far from the standard of player we expect Everton to be associated with - get rid
Jags - at his best, exactly the standard of player we expect Everton to be associated with; on his off days... hmmm
Gibson - in my opinion, only marginally better than Kone in terms of his overall standard. For me, he ain't good enough to be other than a squad player and if the squad improves, he moves further down the pecking order...
Besic - definitely a keeper. Young, confident in his own ability, always looking to move the play forward... a tad rash at times, but hey I'd rather a tad rash, forward thinking player than a sideways passing, safety-first crab of a player.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

The thing you're missing Mr K is that there's a number of us who are prepared to accept that we could go down while also not demanding that Martinez lose his job

Indeed, many have in fact said that we'd be prepared to wait and see how things go next season before making our minds up on the matter

People like yourself, who are stubbornly declaring that there's no way we'll be relegated, are in fact doing far more harm than good, especially if that attitude starts rubbing off on the players

We could still very much go down and, until a time comes when we are mathematically safe, we need to be in survival mode. Complacency will kill us in this current situation

Acting like everything is fine onboard while the Ice Bergs loom in the distance does not help at all

This is not a battle of the Martinez Lovers Vs the Martinez Haters

This is a battle between the realists and the deluded, because deluded is what you truly are if you think there's no chance whatsoever of us going down

I've seen too many sides who were "too good to go down" crash and burn to be so bullish in our current situation

This complacency is total, utter death to our survival hopes

Goodison needs to be roaring the lads over the line right now, rather than sitting on their hands because they think we're safe regardless. The Newcastle game needs to be like the Wimbledon game in 93/94 atmosphere wise

People need to wake up and realise we're in the fight. Being all bullish about how we're defo staying up, when it's pitifully clear that it certainly isn't as clear cut, does not make you a better supporter than anybody else (Not suggesting that's YOUR argument btw, but there are some on here who are defo using the fact that other supporters are, quite reasonably, worried about our current predicament as a way to somehow seem superiour to them in some way, which is very galling)

Being worried about relegation is completely natural. To be annoyed that a side this talented is in this situation in the first place is equally as reasonable

This is why you appear to be "cultish"

You're all so desperate to appear"on message" and, rather than argue your stance, you instead decided to just make it look like other supporters are somehow disloyal for worrying that the side they love may in fact be heading for disaster

This is one of the best posts i have seen on here for a long time, myself and DaveK have been talking about this for a while now, i dont get how it makes me any less of a fan for pointing bobbys faults this year, to the same degree i sang his praises last season. Im worried that as much as i love martinez and his positivity, he may not 'get it' and be able to get us out of this scrap.

Im really worried after being there the last time we were in the dog fight.

 

[Goat]

That's not at all what is happening though

There's a difference between being reasonably worried about something and getting hysterical

I've seen very little hysteria. I've seen concern, and perfectly understandable concern at that

A defeat tonight will bring new meaning to the word hysteria.

 

[Ashtonian]

I'm not comparing quality of squads or managerial abilities though. I'm highlighting the position of Everton in one past season to the current one and trying to demonstrate that the situation calls for calm and not panic.

calm is what we have now, and we are sinking more and more each week. we need panic and hysteria. We need the fan base to turn on the manager and we need the players to go out there and play for him and fight to save both him and the team.

Of course we need to panic, we need to thrive in that panic because where we are is well below where we should be and right now we can go down especially as we still have to play villa and QPR.

 

[peteblue]

All but 2 are Internationals mate, obviously you don't like them but to call them poor is way wide of the mark.
It is what the manager has them doing as a team that is at fault, it just doesn't work in the Premiership.

Well in his first season he got 9 more points than DM did in the previous one. We appear to be progressing nicely in the Europa and in our hearts we also know that we have battered teams and got nothing from a match. Blame him for bringing Howard back into the side but otherwise let's just see what happens.......

 

[Del]

All but 2 are Internationals mate, obviously you don't like them but to call them poor is way wide of the mark.
It is what the manager has them doing as a team that is at fault, it just doesn't work in the Premiership.

So because they are international footballers they are not poor players ?

Great logic

 

[Goat]

MCarthy/Lukaku/Stones/Coleman/Baines/Kev - I count 6 good players, Players that you could see playing in a top 4 side, My mistake saying 4

Look at the rest of our squad Kone/Oviedo/Pienaar/Osman/Mcgeady/Atsu/Distin/Jags/Hibbert/Lennon/Howard/Robles/Alcaraz/Gibson/Besic

It really is a poor squad, Credit to Moyes having us near the top end of the table so often with what he had

Besic?

Koff Derek you pure kopite WUM.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

A defeat tonight will bring new meaning to the word hysteria.

At that point, it would be somewhat merrited

Newcastle is the biggie though

Lose that and we should all worry

 

[sixtynineseventy]

Peteblue - what would be you view if we didn't win the El and still finished 17th?

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

So because they are international footballers they are not poor players ?

Great logic

Always liked how people used the "he played in a World Cup" argument to somehow suggest that Alcaraz wasn't a load of old arse

He played for Paraguay FFS. Hardly a giant of the game