Roberto Martinez discussion

[EverBlue86]

So would you be happy with 8th every year?

No but that's because we have a fantastically built team on a limited budget.

Doesn't mean we haven't over achieved whilst clubs like villa who have spunked £100+ mil on players have under achieved based on the money at their disposal

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

So would you be happy with 8th every year?

In his last 7 years at Goodison we only finished 8th once

But don't let facts get in the way like

 

[meagher94]

In his last 7 years at Goodison we only finished 8th once

But don't let facts get in the way like

It's also a fact that his average finish was 8th though...

I was a huge Moyes supporter anyway until the last couple of years, I just don't believe we were 'punching above our weight'. Maybe in his first few years yes. But once you've been 'punching above your weight' for so long, that surely then becomes your weight.

 

[Seanjd]

It's also a fact that his average finish was 8th though...

On 3 occasions with Moyes we finished 5th, once 4th, 7th quite a number of times. This was all done in a budget lower that Wigan Athletic who spent more net than us consistently.

 

[davek]

In his last 7 years at Goodison we only finished 8th once

But don't let facts get in the way like

Would you have Moyes back?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

It's also a fact that his average finish was 8th though...

A misleading stat, nothing more. As it also includes the 9 games he had in his first season at the start of his reign, and we were relegation fodder before he arrived btw, in case you'd forgot (or weren't born), so the low league finishes that drag that average down to 8th, aren't representative of where we were when he left, compared to when he arrived.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Would you have Moyes back?

Not now no. His era is gone, but the way it's portrayed in some quarters is laughable.

 

[davek]

On 3 occasions with Moyes we finished 5th, once 4th, 7th quite a number of times. This was all done in a budget lower that Wigan Athletic who spent more net than us consistently.

Not under Martinez they didn't. He had to deal with a budget that was slashed. I'm not even sure you're right it was larger under Bruce either.

 

[davek]

Not now no. His era is gone, but the way it's portrayed in some quarters is laughable.

He did a job, for sure. But he's a dinosaur. If we ever went back to the Moyes type again it'd be a black day in the club's history.

We've only just got ourselves back from the semi-kick and rush era of Moyes to start playing our traditional passing style again.

What we dont require is some neanderthal in the mode of Pulis etc.

Anyway, thank goodness we have a manager on a very long contract and those cave men are on the outside looking in.

 

[Grfirestorm]

So would you be happy with 8th every year?

No but to improve it we needed investment, we were fighting spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool for the top 4, while spending hardly a penny in comparison. Changing the manager wouldn't have helped, some cash would. Moyes had the same second full season drop but he hadn't spent 30 million plus or brought in 4 players from a team that got relegated but we also started every season (quite often) craply. We need to stick together and ride it out, and hope we turn it round.

 

[Tidal]

I don't think it's about a 'plan b' which gets bandied about all the time. Like you said before, you need to study a teams weaknesses and set up your own team accordingly. I think that's possibly playing the same style in the whole, but changing things slightly according to what you're up against, that's what the best teams do.

The things that's got me baffled is he was doing this last season. look at the Arsenal game when we surprised them with Lukaku on the wing, then the week after when he said we'd been working all week on letting United have the ball so we could counter them.

This season it's like a different man, same tactics every week that haven't worked all season. The only time we've tried anything different is v Wolfsburg

 

[davek]

No but to improve it we needed investment, we were fighting spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool for the top 4, while spending hardly a penny in comparison. Changing the manager wouldn't have helped, some cash would. Moyes had the same second full season drop but he hadn't spent 30 million plus or brought in 4 players from a team that got relegated but we also started every season (quite often) craply. We need to stick together and ride it out, and hope we turn it round.

He hadn't sold £40M worth of players either, which Martinez has so far.

 

[davek]

The things that's got me baffled is he was doing this last season. look at the Arsenal game when we surprised them with Lukaku on the wing, then the week after when he said we'd been working all week on letting United have the ball so we could counter them.

This season it's like a different man, same tactics every week that haven't worked all season. The only time we've tried anything different is v Wolfsburg

The first Arsenal game was the more instructive for what's going on now. Look at how we passed the ball that day from the back and kept hold of it in our own half and in theirs.

That's what we should be aiming to do at all times. Retain the ball and pas through teams and get our moments right to get people wide and forward.

That was our best performance of the whole Martinez period so far, and it came on his terms. Ergo, we need to get back to that, and if we cant do it with the over the hill puddings currently there then we need to allow Martinez the time and money to bring in personnel who can do it. This is still largely a Moyes squad.

 

[Seanjd]

The first Arsenal game was the more instructive for what's going on now. Look at how we passed the ball that day from the back and kept hold of it in our own half and in theirs.

That's what we should be aiming to do at all times. Retain the ball and pas through teams and get our moments right to get people wide and forward.

That was our best performance of the whole Martinez period so far, and it came on his terms. Ergo, we need to get back to that, and if we cant do it with the over the hill puddings currently there then we need to allow Martinez the time and money to bring in personnel who can do it. This is still largely a Moyes squad.

Out of the Moyes players, which would you keep?

 

[Chang Elephant]

This season it's like a different man, same tactics every week that haven't worked all season. The only time we've tried anything different is v Wolfsburg

Like he had a catastrophic head injury pre season, just doesn't seem to be thinking clearly. Not the same man, baffled why tbf.