Roberto Martinez discussion

[Robocop]

What happened to "he's the next Barcelona manager" shouts haha

I've never seen a 180 like this!

 

[ijjysmith]

On a positive note our corners were mostly good yesterday. Only took a year to sort it out.

Very impressed you found a positive mate.

I put the kettle on everytime we got a corner.

 

[Darth Toffeeman]

How do we have better players? You think this is all the Manager's doing?

honestly... yes. Though the whole coaching set up is tò blame.
Would you swap Southamptons starting 11 with ours?
I think we are better, just playing dreadful currently.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Bill won't fire Martinez even if he takes us down, I'd bet my house on that. Something has to give this season and Martinez is as stubborn as a mule. I think it's slowly hitting him that it's not working anymore.

 

[daz4matty]

honestly... yes. Though the whole coaching set up is tò blame.
Would you swap Southamptons starting 11 with ours?
I think we are better, just playing dreadful currently.

We have a great squad but they are just not playing how they can.
The manager cannot hide he needs to sort the problems.

 

[Axlswhk]

What happened to "he's the next Barcelona manager" shouts haha

I've never seen a 180 like this!

He will do well at Barcelona, reason is because almost every player from defender to striker are capable of dribbling. Dribbling itself creates space, if you manage to get past one defender, another one will rush forward to stop you, hence creating space for other players to be left unmarked. You won't see them passing sideways or backwards aimlessly without a cutting edge like we do.

There are two types of manager, first type is to create an efficient and effective playing style that suits the player at his disposal. The other is to stick by his philosophy and style no matter what type of players he has. We are witnessing the latter now.

 

[daz4matty]

Bill won't fire Martinez even if he takes us down, I'd bet my house on that. Something has to give this season and Martinez is as stubborn as a mule. I think it's slowly hitting him that it's not working anymore.

Yeah you are right about the chairman he will not fire martinez.
I don't think he can see what is going wrong though

 

[roydo]

He will do well at Barcelona, reason is because almost every player from defender to striker are capable of dribbling. Dribbling itself creates space, if you manage to get past one defender, another one will rush forward to stop you, hence creating space for other players to be left unmarked. You won't see them passing sideways or backwards aimlessly without a cutting edge like we do.

There are two types of manager, first type is to create an efficient and effective playing style that suits the player at his disposal. The other is to stick by his philosophy and style no matter what type of players he has. We are witnessing the latter now.

But he mixed it up last season, and also in the EL. Baffles me.

 

[Axlswhk]

But he mixed it up last season, and also in the EL. Baffles me.

My guess is when he first came in, he didn't want to change everything too quickly as he acknowledge the team is already good with many good quality that was drilled into them by the previous manager. He manage to get success retaining the good quality while slowly implementing the changes that he wants. Numerous interview from Martinez suggest this when he first took over. The success last season gave him the courage to go a step further in his philosophy but with the players we have now, it's going to be very difficult.

 

[bicycleheader]

Christ...I can't believe that one of the main criticisisms is that the passing is too slow and we end up with the ball at the back too much....and that apparently this is MArtinez style and all his fault.

Do you actually think he wants the team passing that slowly...that inaccurately...to not provide constant options....to end up with Jags and Distin and Tim nervously messing about?

The passing is too bloody slow because the players are bang out of form.

The posts in here have gotten worse today, no idea why some "fans" want us to be a club that sacks a manager after half a bad season in the league...even though we did well in the Europa and just last season were flying for the most part.

Wheres the massed threads to sell players who have been poor all season?

Empty vessels..

 

[bicycleheader]

My guess is when he first came in, he didn't want to change everything too quickly as he acknowledge the team is already good with many good quality that was drilled into them by the previous manager. He manage to get success retaining the good quality while slowly implementing the changes that he wants. Numerous interview from Martinez suggest this when he first took over. The success last season gave him the courage to go a step further in his philosophy but with the players we have now, it's going to be very difficult.

And I think most people thought it would be difficult...so why they cant have some bloody patience while he changes things and refreshes the squad is beyond me.

 

[bicycleheader]

It's as much about belief as well as pace and tempo. The team spirit is far too fragile at the moment, as soon as something goes against us there's a collective dropping of heads. We finished the first half pushing for an equaliser yesterday and came out in the second half and just drifted through the game as though we could do nothing to change it. It reminds me of our form in 83 when we had a team of good players scared to make things happen. I think it might take a bit more than a dodgy back pass to rectify this slumber though.

I think this is a factor that is being ignored in yhe simplistic "things bad - blame/sack manager" shouts just now.

We start the season and errors drop us points and knock our confidence. Since then at no point have we gone more than a couple of games without another individual error kicking the players confidence in the balls before they can really get the wind in their sails.

God forbid some of the sack him posts would actually take everything into consideration. Theres a lot going wrong and its not just the manager.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

What happened to "he's the next Barcelona manager" shouts haha

I've never seen a 180 like this!

Surely no one said anything like that? If they did the obessive kneejerk brigade would have been all over them cause they can't let a good bit of kneejerking go unmoaned about.

 

[bicycleheader]

I agree with Davek about movement, we lack any movement off the ball. It's well documented that Martinez loves player who could dribble, and his game plan is about players dribbling pass defender to create space, very little emphasis is given to off the ball movement to create space. The problem is we don't have a lot of players capable of driibling in our team. To play a passing game without off the ball movement is the biggest sin in football. Take a look at any of our game this season, whenever someone is holding onto the ball, the rest of the team is static, they don't move into space and create a favourable passing angle. Almost every pass is to feet of a static player standing still to receive the ball. If you're static, defenders don't need a lot of effort to mark you out of the game.

Id disagree with that to be honest.

His style.of football would have and would require a lot of movement and always having opyions on the ball. This isnt happening and so the tactics look bad. How people decide this only the managers fault I really dont know..

 

[riddick]

And I think most people thought it would be difficult...so why they cant have some bloody patience while he changes things and refreshes the squad is beyond me.

But that begs the obvious question: why change at all? Record points haul, Damn close to nipping arsenal to 4th..kinda, players playing with creativity and purpose.

And THIS is how he wants them to play? @Axlswhk said it above, you either play to get the best results from your players which it seems he did last year, or you become rigid with a "philosophy"(God I hate that word in football) that seems to be undoing everything good you did last year. And I cannot imagine that having literally no width is part of his plan, yet he sticks by it always.