Nothing has changed in the past year under Moyes

[CrustySack]

I don't usually post but feel I just need to get today off my chest. I've watched Everton for 36 years. I've been a regular match goer since 1977 so I seen my fair share of Everton. Today was one of the worst experiences I've felt because we just threw in the towel. I can take us losing, but going down without a fight is unforgivable. To be honest, I still haven't got my head around today but I'll share my thoughts.

For me, today was all about the end of an era. The well has finally ran dry, and in that I mean Moyes. The way we came out in the second half spoke volumes to me about the motivation of the team - there was none. Moyes is no longer motivating these players, which in the past has been one of his main strengths. I feel like he himself has probably had enough and this is transcending to the players. Today, that was evident more than ever. Tactically we were naive, almost disinterested. Playing Phil Neville who alone afforded the freedom of the midfield to Wigan was a shocking selection because everyone can see his best days are long, long gone. What doesn't excuse it is the fact that we had better players on the bench, players who could have a positive effect on the team. Neville no longer offers that positive effect, not even in a motivational sense because he is a good talker.

So playing Neville was a clanger, but that wasn't the only thing that disturbed me. As I said, mentally, the team looked finished. It's time for Moyes to go. He knows it, everyone knows it. I'd be happy if someone like Laudrup or Martinez came in, sell Fellaini and Heitinga, and make a fresh start. If that doesn't happen then I fear for the coming years.

Today wasn't just a bad day at the office. I've seen this before and it was more than that.

 

[ToffeeDan]

I was too depressed to count them but here goes:

League Cup: Chelsea (a) 1-4, Boro (a) pens; Arsenal (a) 1-3; Boro (h) 0-1; Arsenal (h) 0-1; Chelsea (agg) 1-3; Blackburn (a) 0-1; Spurs (a) 0-2; Brentford (a) pens. Chelsea (h) 1-2; Leeds (a) 1-2
FA Cup: Shrewsbury (a) 1-2, Fulham (rep, a) 1-2, Man U (h) 0-2, Chelsea (a) 1-4, Blackburn (h) 1-4, Oldham (h) 0-1; Chelsea (F) 1-2, Birmingham (h) 1-2; Reading (h) 0-1; Liverpool (N) 1-2, Wigan (h) 0-3
Champions League: Villarreal 2-4 (agg)
UEFA/Europa; Dinamo Bucharest 2-5 (agg); Fiorentina 2-2 (on pens); Standard Liege (agg) 3-4; Sporting (agg) 2-4

Enough evidence of bottling it?

BTW - SO SO TRUE Crusty.. 42 years at Goodison and I feel just like you. I too can take defeats, take the opposition winning (I even applauded Wigan and again when their bus went past me on Walton Lane (one of their staff applauded back). Let's move on.

 

[GraemeS1980]

I don't usually post but feel I just need to get today off my chest. I've watched Everton for 36 years. I've been a regular match goer since 1977 so I seen my fair share of Everton. Today was one of the worst experiences I've felt because we just threw in the towel. I can take us losing, but going down without a fight is unforgivable. To be honest, I still haven't got my head around today but I'll share my thoughts.

For me, today was all about the end of an era. The well has finally ran dry, and in that I mean Moyes. The way we came out in the second half spoke volumes to me about the motivation of the team - there was none. Moyes is no longer motivating these players, which in the past has been one of his main strengths. I feel like he himself has probably had enough and this is transcending to the players. Today, that was evident more than ever. Tactically we were naive, almost disinterested. Playing Phil Neville who alone afforded the freedom of the midfield to Wigan was a shocking selection because everyone can see his best days are long, long gone. What doesn't excuse it is the fact that we had better players on the bench, players who could have a positive effect on the team. Neville no longer offers that positive effect, not even in a motivational sense because he is a good talker.

So playing Neville was a clanger, but that wasn't the only thing that disturbed me. As I said, mentally, the team looked finished. It's time for Moyes to go. He knows it, everyone knows it. I'd be happy if someone like Laudrup or Martinez came in, sell Fellaini and Heitinga, and make a fresh start. If that doesn't happen then I fear for the coming years.

Today wasn't just a bad day at the office. I've seen this before and it was more than that.

Boss, absolute boss. Keep posting Crusty

 

[nigelcoyb]

Moyes fundamentally is a defensive coach good at buying and bringing on defenders but the complete opposite with strikers and creativity, a second in command his polar opposite could transform things.

But I think he struggles to accept an opposite point of view it takes supreme confidence to value knowledge you don't have and not be threatened by it, Fergie changes his staff every few years because he knows this and the danger of "same old same old". If Moyes brings in staff they are identikit replicas of himself.

Hence the same flaws in every Moyes side resulting in a familiar pattern - purple patch in the season, a few "not arsed" games, defeat in the "big" games resulting in 7th/8th and no cups EVERY year.

Given his friendliness with Fergie I'm surprised this little tip hasn't be passed over - then again Ferguson is adept at keeping his enemies in the tent pissing out.

 

[Pomp]

we are going to learn a lot about the everton board, David Moyes, and the players between now and the end of the season. top 4 is a miracle that won't happen, but just how motivated will David Moyes be, and how motivated can he get his players to be? It's such a shame Moyes and Everton really ****ed up today. Home to Wigan who don't really have a goal threat and yet we played like a sunday league team. disgrace really the result is one thing but the performance was just a sackable offence really. safest job in football - we r everton not some pub team ffs

 

[ToffeeDan]

Yes, Nigel - and therefore who are the "winners"? AVB definitely has it - look how Porto took Europe by storm, look at Spurs now, Wenger had it (till about 2004) but not now - Mourinho has it, Benitez nearly had it (for a year or two) at The RS (I don't mean the fluke that was Istanbul), Keegan nearly had it but bottled it, Dalglish didn't really have it (but had the money to get what his bosses required), Fergie definitely has it, Mancini almost has it - again money gets the job done. The likes of Moyes, Pardew, Fat Sam don't..;.

 

[faddy the blue]

A manager who cannot see the duration his side has been unable to keep clean sheet since I don't know when and who even seeing his side go 3-0 down inside 30 min just stands there looking on hoping something will turn up is not good enough! Had that been SA Ferguson he would have jumped off his seat and be out on the touchline in anger but there's our idiot version of his who is so over rated. Yeah you freaking worked in a tight budget but tge team you've got is better than most teams in the PL and so its your fault when they continuously season in season out become **** cos of your idiotic tactics. We were defending the corners with 10 men even at 3-0 down...can it get any pathetic? Andy Johnson, Beattie, Yakubu, Bilyaletdinov and now Jelavic are the recent big name players who you ruined with your style of play. Pls leave while you still have some self respect and good luck becoming the man utd manager...you won't last a season with this coward mindset there.

 

[dholliday]

Today wasn't just a bad day at the office. I've seen this before and it was more than that.

You think this was worse than losing in the cup to Reading and Liverpool the last 2 years?

Reading was absolutely dire, that was when the rot really started. Liverpool was soulcrushing. This against Wigan was just so feeble I feel numb to it.

it takes supreme confidence to value knowledge you don't have and not be threatened by it.

Instant sig! And applicable in all walks of life.

 

[blue61]

I don't usually post but feel I just need to get today off my chest. I've watched Everton for 36 years. I've been a regular match goer since 1977 so I seen my fair share of Everton. Today was one of the worst experiences I've felt because we just threw in the towel. I can take us losing, but going down without a fight is unforgivable. To be honest, I still haven't got my head around today but I'll share my thoughts.

For me, today was all about the end of an era. The well has finally ran dry, and in that I mean Moyes. The way we came out in the second half spoke volumes to me about the motivation of the team - there was none. Moyes is no longer motivating these players, which in the past has been one of his main strengths. I feel like he himself has probably had enough and this is transcending to the players. Today, that was evident more than ever. Tactically we were naive, almost disinterested. Playing Phil Neville who alone afforded the freedom of the midfield to Wigan was a shocking selection because everyone can see his best days are long, long gone. What doesn't excuse it is the fact that we had better players on the bench, players who could have a positive effect on the team. Neville no longer offers that positive effect, not even in a motivational sense because he is a good talker.

So playing Neville was a clanger, but that wasn't the only thing that disturbed me. As I said, mentally, the team looked finished. It's time for Moyes to go. He knows it, everyone knows it. I'd be happy if someone like Laudrup or Martinez came in, sell Fellaini and Heitinga, and make a fresh start. If that doesn't happen then I fear for the coming years.

Today wasn't just a bad day at the office. I've seen this before and it was more than that.

Excellent post

 

[ToffeeDan]

Was this worse than Reading?


League Cup:
Chelsea (a) 1-4 - too good for us
Boro (a) pens - can't recall but suspect the kind of game we ought to win
Arsenal (a) 1-3; too good for us
Boro (h) 0-1; we were dire
Arsenal (h) 0-1; Poll sent Faddy off, a bit unlucky
Chelsea (agg) 1-3; decent effort against Chelsea in their prime
Blackburn (a) 0-1; totally dire
Spurs (a) 0-2;went down without a fight
Brentford (a) pens. - too awful for words
Chelsea (h) 1-2; Played ok, Mucha threw it away
Leeds (a) 1-2 - dreadful

FA Cup:
Shrewsbury (a) 1-2, beyond the pale
Fulham (rep, a) 1-2, another wasted chance
Man U (h) 0-2, too good for us
Chelsea (a) 1-4, too good for us
Blackburn (h) 1-4, unacceptably poor
Oldham (h) 0-1;unacceptably poor
Chelsea (F) 1-2, missing 3 key players we were outplayed
Birmingham (h) 1-2; very poor
Reading (h) 0-1; very very poor - and, missing Beckford at the start, no Plan B
Liverpool (N) 1-2, just the usual cowardly Derby performance
Wigan (h) 0-3 - beyond dreadful

Champions League:
Villarreal 2-4 (agg) - singularly unfortunate in many respects

UEFA/Europa;
Dinamo Bucharest 2-5 (agg); Shockingly bad
Fiorentina 2-2 (on pens); another hard luck story
Standard Liege (agg) 3-4; a wasted chance
Sporting (agg) 2-4 - blew a 2 goal lead

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Nice one Dan, good to see it all written down in order and finally blowing the "we can't win cups cause teams spend more money than us" line out the window once and for all.

 

[ToffeeDan]

Nice one Dan, good to see it all written down in order and finally blowing the "we can't win cups cause teams spend more money than us" line out the window once and for all.

I can go further back if you want Deathbycontinuouscupfailuremakesonereachforthepainkillers!

 

[Seamus Colemole]

I can go further back if you want Deathbycontinuouscupfailuremakesonereachforthepainkillers!

Haha nah no need mate, just shows all moyes failures to beat teams worse than us in the cups.

Although it would be nice if we could see what round we exited at and who we beat in earlier rounds, that shouldn't take long

 

[ToffeeDan]

Haha nah no need mate, just shows all moyes failures to beat teams worse than us in the cups.

Although it would be nice if we could see what round we exited at and who we beat in earlier rounds, that shouldn't take long

FA Cup (11) - one final, one semi, one QF.

3 8 wins 3 losses
4 5-3
5 3-2
6 2-1
SF 1-1 (pen win)
F 0-1

Wins 17 Losses 11

League Cup

A miserable 14 wins 10 losses (and some penalty shoot outs, another area we fail in)

Europe

14 wins 9 losses

45 wins 30 losses in total


Winners - nil

 

[EvertruvianMan]

I feel in his early days when he was keeping us in the league that the cup comps were second fiddle. A few times he put sides out to save certain players, and in some cases some of the players he was saving were ones he inherited and werent worth two dimes (in retrospect at least).
I firmly believe Moyes has prioritised the league throughout his tenure, and I can see some level of sense in this mindset. It doesnt make the pain any less but i'd rather be in the league than win a pot and get sunk and potentially never come back like a few others that have fallen have suffered.
Its not an excuse, but lets remember it is the league that gives us the tv money that allows us to keep the few top players we are currently keeping hold of.

What absolutely boggles my mind is getting Hitzlsperger in and not playing him and extending his contract beyond january to not play him some more. If his legs are worse than senior by 4 years Neville's then how were we struggling to keep hold of the 60 odd times capped German International.