VAR

[JelavicBrate2]

I get that, and to a certain extent I buy that it can happen but I think it gets massively overplayed. Like I said, as with all conspiracy theories it starts to fall down as soon as you do anything more than give it a cursory glance. If the only explanation for poor decisions is 'corruption' or 'conspiracy' then how do we explain decisions like Bournemouth getting a ridiculously soft penalty the other day against Palace when if anything the PL would surely have wanted them to lose so that they couldn't catch Liverpool? Why would the Jesus handball (I assume you mean the one against us?) be blatant corruption when it happened in literally the last minute of the season and didn't affect anybody's league placing? If you have to do all sorts of mad mental gymnastics to justify how and why these things could happen it just makes it quite difficult to believe, when the other option is just as simple as 'some people aren't very good at their jobs'.

Gabriel Jesus's handball was merely to make it more interesting, it was clear handball. Some decisions are incompetence or refs bottling it, some decisions are corrupt. Other than Clattenburgs performance in Merseyside derby I don't remember any corrupt performances pre VAR. Problem with VAR is some decisions are debatable, some are clear and obvious. We got a penalty against Brighton, for exactly same offence as Konate committed against us a few weeks later. Corruption maybe, bottling it certainly. However when they look at Tarkowskis goal for 5 minutes against RS, yet don't do same for VVD goal against us id say that is corruption. Deliberately showing completely wrong angle and wrong challenge for challenge on Young was corruption. I personally think at very least 1 of challenges Young made against Forest were penalties and all 3 would be given against RS. I don't believe every bad VAR decision can be attributed to corruption, only some.

 

[Lanolin]

Gabriel Jesus's handball was merely to make it more interesting, it was clear handball. Some decisions are incompetence or refs bottling it, some decisions are corrupt. Other than Clattenburgs performance in Merseyside derby I don't remember any corrupt performances pre VAR. Problem with VAR is some decisions are debatable, some are clear and obvious. We got a penalty against Brighton, for exactly same offence as Konate committed against us a few weeks later. Corruption maybe, bottling it certainly. However when they look at Tarkowskis goal for 5 minutes against RS, yet don't do same for VVD goal against us id say that is corruption. Deliberately showing completely wrong angle and wrong challenge for challenge on Young was corruption. I personally think at very least 1 of challenges Young made against Forest were penalties and all 3 would be given against RS. I don't believe every bad VAR decision can be attributed to corruption, only some.

The Jesus one didn't make it more interesting though that's my point, it was in the last minute of the game and City were already 3-1 up in their game, it had absolutely no effect on anything whatsoever - nobody was sat there thinking West Ham were going to score another 3 goals in the next 90 seconds so the idea that it was 'blatant corruption' just doesn't stand up.

I agree with the general point, I think some clubs get more beneficial decisions than others, but it's very easy as fans to see things purely from our own perspective and ignore the thigs that don't fit with what we want to believe. I have no idea to what extent decisions in our games would be seen to have 'evened themselves out' if analysed by a neutral observer but I would bet a lot of money that it would be a lot closer than people would have you believe on here. That's not a criticism and obviously not specific to us, all fans are going to focus more on perceived injustices against them and largely ignore borderline decisions which go their way.

 

[Tipp blue]

I get that, and to a certain extent I buy that it can happen but I think it gets massively overplayed. Like I said, as with all conspiracy theories it starts to fall down as soon as you do anything more than give it a cursory glance. If the only explanation for poor decisions is 'corruption' or 'conspiracy' then how do we explain decisions like Bournemouth getting a ridiculously soft penalty the other day against Palace when if anything the PL would surely have wanted them to lose so that they couldn't catch Liverpool? Why would the Jesus handball (I assume you mean the one against us?) be blatant corruption when it happened in literally the last minute of the season and didn't affect anybody's league placing? If you have to do all sorts of mad mental gymnastics to justify how and why these things could happen it just makes it quite difficult to believe, when the other option is just as simple as 'some people aren't very good at their jobs'.

Then it's incompetence which is almost worse... The decisions are baffling,, I genuinely think we get crap thrown at us because we are big enough for it to be discussed and get clicks for a while but not big enough that it drags on and on for weeks.

 

[kiss the crest]

That Ref tonight in the PSG Bayern game a different class to what we have in the prem

 

[Shibbywiggles]

That Ref tonight in the PSG Bayern game a different class to what we have in the prem

It always seems that way, just wait until the World Cup, it’ll be near flawlessly refereed with VAR spot on and quick to get to the right call, then the premier league will start back up again after and nothing will have changed

 

[Shibbywiggles]

I remember the Russia World Cup 2018 when VAR was introduced, before it was in the premier league, it was fantastic. All the decisions were good, the only negative was a few decisions took a bit longer than we’d like but the decisions were great.

I watched loads of games in that World Cup and was really excited for it to be rolled out in the premier league, naively thinking it would stop us being hard done by because ‘how could they possibly get it wrong with slow motion replays and the pressure of the moment to make a split second decision in the stadium removed’.

…how wrong was I?

 

[Cels]

So you can grapple a player to the ground, but you can't pull his shirt causing him, for some reason, to fall forward. Both penalties, for me.

Penalty given

No Penalty given

​

 

[Lanolin]

I remember the Russia World Cup 2018 when VAR was introduced, before it was in the premier league, it was fantastic. All the decisions were good, the only negative was a few decisions took a bit longer than we’d like but the decisions were great.

I watched loads of games in that World Cup and was really excited for it to be rolled out in the premier league, naively thinking it would stop us being hard done by because ‘how could they possibly get it wrong with slow motion replays and the pressure of the moment to make a split second decision in the stadium removed’.

…how wrong was I?

It’s funny because I remember saying - and posting on here - the exact opposite, I thought it was awful and it was obvious it would make things worse, which is exactly what’s happened.

 

[Lanolin]

So you can grapple a player to the ground, but you can't pull his shirt causing him, for some reason, to fall forward. Both penalties, for me.

Penalty given
View attachment 352534

No Penalty given
View attachment 352535
​

Well obviously that’s because the PL want Chelsea to… oh. Well then it’s obviously because the PL don’t want Tottenham to…oh. Well then it must be because the PL want the relegation battle to…oh.

 

[Cels]

Well obviously that’s because the PL want Chelsea to… oh. Well then it’s obviously because the PL don’t want Tottenham to…oh. Well then it must be because the PL want the relegation battle to…oh.

So many conspiracy theories, so little time.

 

[Timhowardsswearbox]

There is no conspiracy specifically against Everton. However, there is less impact on a referee or VAR if they get our decisions wrong, and there is still an (un)conscious bias towards some teams over others. I remember the Derby a couple of years ago when Ashley Young was sent off for 2 yellow cards, and then Konate committed 2 similar offences and was given a warning. That's not a conspiracy, but it is weak refereeing because there is little to no consequence for not applying the rules consistently.

 

[mahermi1]

Swear to God that pen that Villa just got, is nowhere near enough of a pen that Everton were refused against Man City. Premier league as corrupt as Hell.

 

[Simo]

Swear to God that pen that Villa just got, is nowhere near enough of a pen that Everton were refused against Man City. Premier league as corrupt as Hell.

Was thinking the same, but their get-out is, rohl wasn't 'on the ball' at the time he was hauled over

 

[Amw79]

There is no conspiracy specifically against Everton. However, there is less impact on a referee or VAR if they get our decisions wrong, and there is still an (un)conscious bias towards some teams over others. I remember the Derby a couple of years ago when Ashley Young was sent off for 2 yellow cards, and then Konate committed 2 similar offences and was given a warning. That's not a conspiracy, but it is weak refereeing because there is little to no consequence for not applying the rules consistently.

This is about the size of it for me. A few teams are in the league are just consistently given the benefit of the doubt (un/conscious bias), and this has an accumulative effect on the other 14/15 teams who do not.

A referee makes a debatable decision against the RS, and it’s discussed and debated for the next week, the VAR audio gets released, there’s 25 articles about the urgent need for law changes to prevent this happening again, and the officials and Premier League come under a lot of scrutiny. The same debatable decision goes against the “other 14”, and it doesn’t even get mentioned by the studio team, that team’s fans moan about it for 24 hours and it’s then forgotten.

This combined with referees wanting the “reflected glory” of being pally with the big name / big teams, creates an environment of bias whether intended or not.

 

[MACCA75]

This is about the size of it for me. A few teams are in the league are just consistently given the benefit of the doubt (un/conscious bias), and this has an accumulative effect on the other 14/15 teams who do not.

A referee makes a debatable decision against the RS, and it’s discussed and debated for the next week, the VAR audio gets released, there’s 25 articles about the urgent need for law changes to prevent this happening again, and the officials and Premier League come under a lot of scrutiny. The same debatable decision goes against the “other 14”, and it doesn’t even get mentioned by the studio team, that team’s fans moan about it for 24 hours and it’s then forgotten.

This combined with referees wanting the “reflected glory” of being pally with the big name / big teams, creates an environment of bias whether intended or not.

Exactly this. There is no big conspiracy or brown envelopes. But there is a consistent bias to the top clubs