New Everton Stadium - Hill Dickinson Stadium

You can't do checks surely with minimal entrances honestly do what they did at goodison FFS accident waiting to happen.
People were getting pushed everywhere before last two home games.. nothing to do with people having a last pint early evening kick off 730 people getting home from work going the game accident waiting to happen..
My going the game experience is getting more negative every game FFS..sort it knobheads in charge.
 
Sorry I know for you lot this will have been asked a million times, but didn't want to start a thread. Where can I grab a drink pre-match near the stadium (if possible?)

Obviously this is the biggest away allocation you'll of have, and a bit unprecedented so far. So anyone know if the police are going to be heavy handed with away/ home only pubs - or they'll allow us to mix? We haven't really heard anything our end, and while I expected very limited trouble - I'd totally understand if the police are weary...
Ten Streets Social, The Dock Wall.

The Bramley Moore is usually proper rammed so we don't bother with it on match days but it's an early kick off so you might be alright (it's literally opposite the ground.)
 
I think a lot of fans were quite heavily sold on the "blue wall" and the "designed for atmosphere" claims given by the club and Meis over a very long period..... from the initial consultation phases to the big design unveiling, and then through the whole construction phase, this is what was repeatedly sold to us etc.... There's now some disappointment that somehow it isn't quite the "automatic" cauldron that many expected. Yes, it is people who make the noise, but the design can greatly influence how it all works and even help prompt that process.

There can also be a big difference between designing a "whole stadium" for overall good acoustics, and designing a "home end" for atmosphere. For it to be the engine room (a la the yellow wall) for really generating and boosting those chants, filling the home-end with noise, which then fully engages the whole stadium to give a great atmosphere. Unfortunately, the high roof of the South stand, its slightly upturned geometry and the large gap between back row and roof, means the "acoustic catchment and feeback" for that end isn't particularly great. At 63 rows it also isn't that big (just a few rows more than the Gwladys St in fact). On top of that, the demographics of placing the most vociferous fans in just the bottom 27 rows (most distant from the roof) means that it's probably not the real "muscle" stand that most expected. Compare that to how Birmingham City's architect describes the design of their proposed stadium, where he mentions the "squeezing of that space" between roof and fans to really amplify the sound. We went for an elevated barrel roof, great for containing whole stadium noise generally, but slightly vacuous for generating home-end noise advantage.

Yes, Goodison also wasn't great for atmosphere for many games, and it certainly wasn't designed for its acoustics in any way, with its relatively tall stands and high roof lines etc.... However, in the days of standing and particularly for 50k+ gates, it was always extremely noisy. It never had a kop-type terrace, but the tight overlapping stands brought everyone much tighter to the pitch and that, plus standing and sitting on all sides meant that it was very responsive to any incident on the pitch, so that when the blue touch paper was lit.... the quietish arena became an absolute bearpit. Before the 70s much of the noise came from the sides with the large Goodison Rd terrace producing the bulk of that famous Goodison roar across the shorter (cross pitch) axis.

The new stadium is an even more cavernous space to fill with noise, but when that high threshold of engaged fans is met, then the barrel roof will ensure a great "whole stadium" atmosphere. Simon Inglis, the well known writer on the history of football stadiums wrote that Goodison was famous for the atmosphere that prevailed there on special occasions.... I think that might also be the case for our new stadium.

Of course, there is also that whole "bedding in" process where the most vociferous fans eventually find their place and the atmosphere can really evolve. For instance, when the Green Brigade relocated to the corner section at Celtic Park, it marked a real step-change in the atmosphere there. Perhaps if an upper corner section (or both) could be better utilised in this way, then those really trying to affect the atmosphere, would also find greater acoustic leverage just under to roof, to keep the atmosphere at least simmering, for all games! Time will tell. To this effect the North stand is a bit of a damp squib.... Goodison at least felt like it had 2 home ends.... far less so at BMD. Maybe this will develop too.

Not a good look on a state of the art stadium opened barely 6 months ago to have so many empty seats, and I think at base there needs to be a recognition by the facility operators that we've reached that point where core 'customers' have proven to be inelastic with their demand. In short: we have expensive tickets that cant all be sold because much of our fanbase dont have the disposable income to pay for them.

The stadium operators are going to slowly choke off later generations of fans if they carry on down this path. A much more realistic ticket price is going to be needed. Look at the cup game tomorrow where prices against a PL club were held down to £20 - they disappeared when they went on general sale in about 5 minutes. Of course, that cant be the case for actual PL games anymore, but if the club dropped their prices by a tenner or 15 quid for any game outside the elite clubs' visits then that would boost demand.

It's going to be interesting to see the pattern of Everton home attendances over the course of the season. You can be sure the club and its stadium operating company will be looking closely at the undulating picture with next season in mind. As things stand (without European football next season) price rises are simply a fantasy - that's for sure.
[/QUOTE]

Hi Tom, why do you think the design of the stadium restricts the noise? When it was buzzing like at palace at home it was louder than I've ever heard goodison? I think the roof in the south stand compliments the atmosphere effectively.

The park end (when rarely) was going on it was significantly louder than the Gwladys St due to the lower roof and over lapping stand.

I agree with the north stand though, seems a dampener.
 
I've gone from Lower Gwladys to Lower South and it doesn't seem anywhere near as loud. It might sound different from other parts of the ground though.
I'm in Lower West & it sounds really loud to me at times. I join in as should everyone imo, wish I was young enough to be in the Lower South!
I meant to reply to jayblu9, sorry.
 
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Don't think we're intimidating like at goodison say lower bullens lower glwadys say taking corners so forth so intimidating spurs scored and knobhead celebrating right in front of us no reaction wouldn't got away with it at goodison.. have we gone prawn sandwich...
 
I think a lot of this taps into the entertainment facility Vs football club fortress debate concerning how this stadium should be positioned.

Obvioulsy we want it to be an intimidating stadium to come to in terms of us winning games with a raucous atmosphere. The stadium management committee want it to be a non-aligned punter paradise with nothing on their minds other than a day out where people empty their wallets.

I hate to say it, but if - and probably when - there's a kick off outside this stadium then the stadium will see a lot more discrimination in terms of getting away fans safely into and back out of it, with locking away fans in a part of that.

On the upside it could mightily add to the feeling that we have a home ground to defend here rather than a tourist attraction with Everton taking up a few hours of it every couple of weeks.
Your mind is definately warped mate.

Keep off the crack and Morrocan Woodbines.
 
I think a lot of this taps into the entertainment facility Vs football club fortress debate concerning how this stadium should be positioned.

Obvioulsy we want it to be an intimidating stadium to come to in terms of us winning games with a raucous atmosphere. The stadium management committee want it to be a non-aligned punter paradise with nothing on their minds other than a day out where people empty their wallets.

I hate to say it, but if - and probably when - there's a kick off outside this stadium then the stadium will see a lot more discrimination in terms of getting away fans safely into and back out of it, with locking away fans in a part of that.

On the upside it could mightily add to the feeling that we have a home ground to defend here rather than a tourist attraction with Everton taking up a few hours of it every couple of weeks.

Dave, you could start an argument at an annual conference for the terminally reticent...stick to RS baiting, we've enough to think about ATM than these trivialities. 😗
 
Your mind is definately warped mate.

Keep off the crack and Morrocan Woodbines.
I think I'm right on the money, tbf.

I mean I'm not advocating trouble happens at this stadium - it just will at some point.

And when that happens the club / stadium management company / coppers will react and insist on tightening the restrictions on away fans, which will in turn act as something that will define the stadium more as home territory. It's just common sense that would be the case.

It's all too beige down there at the moment anyway.
 
not sure what warranted the middle finger here @bignev23 , I hope you're OK sweetheart x
Morning officer you’ve been rumbled x
1768006882218.webp
 
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To my eyes, looking all round the ground the fans are too far away from the pitch, I know it was a known expectation of the new ground despite Dan Meis always saying they'll keep the fans as close as possible to the pitch - but it has to be said it is very noticeable compared to Goodison whether viewed at the match itself or on the telly, there just seems to be a 'barrier' of space and salad between the players and the stands that was not there at Goodison, a level of connection and intimacy has been lost.

That being said it is still a fantastic new ground but much more work needs to be done to Evertonify/Goodisonify it, our statues need to be relocated - I have a feeling Goodison will not be there for very long judging by the womens game attendances. EFC and Everton need to be in big letters on the seats, yes they can only be seen when it is empty but still needs to be done.
 
I think a lot of fans were quite heavily sold on the "blue wall" and the "designed for atmosphere" claims given by the club and Meis over a very long period..... from the initial consultation phases to the big design unveiling, and then through the whole construction phase, this is what was repeatedly sold to us etc.... There's now some disappointment that somehow it isn't quite the "automatic" cauldron that many expected. Yes, it is people who make the noise, but the design can greatly influence how it all works and even help prompt that process.

There can also be a big difference between designing a "whole stadium" for overall good acoustics, and designing a "home end" for atmosphere. For it to be the engine room (a la the yellow wall) for really generating and boosting those chants, filling the home-end with noise, which then fully engages the whole stadium to give a great atmosphere. Unfortunately, the high roof of the South stand, its slightly upturned geometry and the large gap between back row and roof, means the "acoustic catchment and feeback" for that end isn't particularly great. At 63 rows it also isn't that big (just a few rows more than the Gwladys St in fact). On top of that, the demographics of placing the most vociferous fans in just the bottom 27 rows (most distant from the roof) means that it's probably not the real "muscle" stand that most expected. Compare that to how Birmingham City's architect describes the design of their proposed stadium, where he mentions the "squeezing of that space" between roof and fans to really amplify the sound. We went for an elevated barrel roof, great for containing whole stadium noise generally, but slightly vacuous for generating home-end noise advantage.

Yes, Goodison also wasn't great for atmosphere for many games, and it certainly wasn't designed for its acoustics in any way, with its relatively tall stands and high roof lines etc.... However, in the days of standing and particularly for 50k+ gates, it was always extremely noisy. It never had a kop-type terrace, but the tight overlapping stands brought everyone much tighter to the pitch and that, plus standing and sitting on all sides meant that it was very responsive to any incident on the pitch, so that when the blue touch paper was lit.... the quietish arena became an absolute bearpit. Before the 70s much of the noise came from the sides with the large Goodison Rd terrace producing the bulk of that famous Goodison roar across the shorter (cross pitch) axis.

The new stadium is an even more cavernous space to fill with noise, but when that high threshold of engaged fans is met, then the barrel roof will ensure a great "whole stadium" atmosphere. Simon Inglis, the well known writer on the history of football stadiums wrote that Goodison was famous for the atmosphere that prevailed there on special occasions.... I think that might also be the case for our new stadium.

Of course, there is also that whole "bedding in" process where the most vociferous fans eventually find their place and the atmosphere can really evolve. For instance, when the Green Brigade relocated to the corner section at Celtic Park, it marked a real step-change in the atmosphere there. Perhaps if an upper corner section (or both) could be better utilised in this way, then those really trying to affect the atmosphere, would also find greater acoustic leverage just under to roof, to keep the atmosphere at least simmering, for all games! Time will tell. To this effect the North stand is a bit of a damp squib.... Goodison at least felt like it had 2 home ends.... far less so at BMD. Maybe this will develop too.
There was always going to be a bedding in period. I am glad they opted for the capacity they did. A 60k stadium even maximising the regs like at the new white hart lane is cavenous and looks like it would have resulted in embarrassing numbers of empty seats. The atmosphere at the new stadium will be decent for big moments/games
 
There was always going to be a bedding in period. I am glad they opted for the capacity they did. A 60k stadium even maximising the regs like at the new white hart lane is cavenous and looks like it would have resulted in embarrassing numbers of empty seats. The atmosphere at the new stadium will be decent for big moments/games
once they sort out the ticketing and pricing structure the stadium will be pretty much full for most games. Its a shame they couldnt have got it right form the off and made best use of the excitement of the new ground unit the difficulties getting tickets and the high prices are sadly putting some people off that we may not get back.
 
once they sort out the ticketing and pricing structure the stadium will be pretty much full for most games. Its a shame they couldnt have got it right form the off and made best use of the excitement of the new ground unit the difficulties getting tickets and the high prices are sadly putting some people off that we may not get back.
Exactly this.

Get the pricing right and be flexible on ticket transfers and keep as few tickets out of the hands of legal touts who do the corporate stuff and we have a full or near full capacity stadium each game.
 
Not a good look on a state of the art stadium opened barely 6 months ago to have so many empty seats, and I think at base there needs to be a recognition by the facility operators that we've reached that point where core 'customers' have proven to be inelastic with their demand. In short: we have expensive tickets that cant all be sold because much of our fanbase dont have the disposable income to pay for them.

The stadium operators are going to slowly choke off later generations of fans if they carry on down this path. A much more realistic ticket price is going to be needed. Look at the cup game tomorrow where prices against a PL club were held down to £20 - they disappeared when they went on general sale in about 5 minutes. Of course, that cant be the case for actual PL games anymore, but if the club dropped their prices by a tenner or 15 quid for any game outside the elite clubs' visits then that would boost demand.

It's going to be interesting to see the pattern of Everton home attendances over the course of the season. You can be sure the club and its stadium operating company will be looking closely at the undulating picture with next season in mind. As things stand (without European football next season) price rises are simply a fantasy - that's for sure.

Hi Tom, why do you think the design of the stadium restricts the noise? When it was buzzing like at palace at home it was louder than I've ever heard goodison? I think the roof in the south stand compliments the atmosphere effectively.

The park end (when rarely) was going on it was significantly louder than the Gwladys St due to the lower roof and over lapping stand.

I agree with the north stand though, seems a dampener.
[/QUOTE]

The geometry between roof and fans dictates the whole "acoustic catchment" of any stand. If you look at the cross section of the south stand and draw a line at say 45° from its roof's leading edge down to the stand, and then count the number of rows from where that line intersects with the seated tier, to the back row..... then you will have a rough indication of that "catchment," that you can then use as comparison with other similar stands.... ie the number of fans that get some partial echo/feedback effect from the underside of the roof..... The angle of the roof also influences that relationship.... an upward sloping roof can be less intensive in terms of the noise in that home-end than a slightly downward sloping roof (as seen with South tribune or yelliw wall at Dortmund). These are the factors that dictate how the noise is partly reflected back and how the chants spread across the whole home-end, build-up to full volume and then propogate. At the south stand, that is slightly reduced by the high upturned roof, and those rows of fans not going right up to meet its underside at the back. Obviously that whole catchment would've also been improved by the roof extending further, to at least the goal line (better protecting the fans from the weather too). For instance, Bilbao had to extend their roof to give better weather protection for their lower tier, and the marked improvement to atmosphere has been a happy byproduct.

All that's not to say that it isn't loud when everyone is up for it..... the flipside is that the barrel roof provides better "whole stadium" atmosphere..... so when that happens, it will really boom.
 

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