2025/26 David Moyes

[toffeeblue9]

I think while some of the talk is over the top. The way i see it is that Moyes record in these games isnt good enough. Its one of a few flaws he has. Just look at Man Utd winning at Anfield yesterday, i dont think Man Utd are better than us. This is what churns on fans who saw it for years under Moyes and im a fan of Moyes

Thing is though, Liverpool had the chances to score about 5 yesterday. Whereas when we played them it was probably much closer in terms of chances. If Liverpool score anything like the number of goals they *should* do yesterday, this doesn't get brought up at all.

 

[gedefc]

12th place - glory days…

think theres 3 points between us and Spurs in 5th

 

[Drico]

…it’s clearly a fair point. I know he sets the team up but it’s the players who are on the pitch, you’d think just once or twice they’d force a victory even if the Manager has an ‘inferiority complex’.

But these are his players. In most cases over the years, the players he sends out on to the pitch at these places are the ones he has brought in.

Seamus Coleman, for example. He has made a career out of being an honourable loser, all defiance and post-match rallying cries. The only conclusion I can draw is that the inferiority complex of the manager is shared by his players. They reflect him.

Moyes is a good manager. Competent. But he is hamstrung by his own limitations. The question next summer isn't whether or not he can take us further. The question is are we happy to pooter along in 12th or maybe a few places higher given a fair wind? Or are we going to be brave enough to try to get in somebody with a higher ceiling who might actually get the odd win at these places while driving us further up the league? I understand Evertonians are traumatised by the last decade. But we'll continue to be dismissed as an irrevelance by the media whilst questions about us being a big club are asked if we think Moyes is as good as it can be for Everton because we're collectively enduring PTSD.

 

[Drico]

think theres 3 points between us and Spurs in 5th

Let's beat Spurs then next week.

It should be eminently possible to do that.

Otherwise we'll be closer to the relegation places than to the side in 5th...

 

[John from Bootle]

I mean if we’re just going to cherry pick a few games then he also lost at home to 2 of the bottom 3, got knocked out of the cup by Liverpool under 9s and somehow failed to win a game we were 2-0 up in after 94 minutes, but yeah the half dozen games before james got bored were great.

I don't think it's cherry picking tbh mate. The second half of the season was not good enough. I think people forget how limited that squad was though. For a big part of the season we had holgate and Godfrey as our full backs.

Now granted, Godfrey was signed on his watch. but I don't believe for one second he was an Ancelotti signing. At a reported fee of £27 million https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-everton/alletransfers/verein/29 - making him the largest outlay during Carlo's one summer with us - I would have to question if that was really Carlo's decision.

The same squad went on to sucessive relegation battles and the club lurched one from one crisis to another. I'd put very little of that down to Carlo getting Allan, Doucoure and James in. I'd still take that midfield for this season tbh (obviously only if they still had the legs).

 

[Lanolin]

Thing is though, Liverpool had the chances to score about 5 yesterday. Whereas when we played them it was probably much closer in terms of chances. If Liverpool score anything like the number of goals they *should* do yesterday, this doesn't get brought up at all.

I'm not saying this to get involved in the argument but it is worth pointing out that those figures don't actually mean anything because of the context of the game. United were 1-0 up from the first minute until about the 80th yesterday, while in our game it was the other way round with Liverpool taking an early lead. They had to throw the kitchen sink at United yesterday because they were behind for all but about 5 minutes of the game whereas against us the game looked to be over with them 2 up after less than half an hour.

 

[toffeeblue9]

I'm not saying this to get involved in the argument but it is worth pointing out that those figures don't actually mean anything because of the context of the game. United were 1-0 up from the first minute until about the 80th yesterday, while in our game it was the other way round with Liverpool taking an early lead. They had to throw the kitchen sink at United yesterday because they were behind for all but about 5 minutes of the game whereas against us the game looked to be over with them 2 up after less than half an hour.

Yeah, stats are meaningless without context, I agree. A lot of the time the first goal can dictate the flow of chances which is sort of what happened in those two examples. But, even given that, that still tells you that Liverpool were profligate in front of goal yesterday and they weren't against us.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I'm not losing any sleep over an away defeat at City.

It's my first trip to the new stadium on Sunday, so hopefully we can stick 3 past Spurs like we did last season (without the heart attack inducing stress of then conceding 2 like...)

 

[hallamblue]

…it’s clearly a fair point. I know he sets the team up but it’s the players who are on the pitch, you’d think just once or twice they’d force a victory even if the Manager has an ‘inferiority complex’.

You can't force a victory when the manager is on the sidelines, shouting at you to get back into your solid 9 at the back formation.

 

[degsy]

But these are his players. In most cases over the years, the players he sends out on to the pitch at these places are the ones he has brought in.

Seamus Coleman, for example. He has made a career out of being an honourable loser, all defiance and post-match rallying cries. The only conclusion I can draw is that the inferiority complex of the manager is shared by his players. They reflect him.

Moyes is a good manager. Competent. But he is hamstrung by his own limitations.

This!
The Mk II version is hopefully a short term appointment.
Not withstanding the recent Kenwright / Moshiri / Lampard / Benitez / Dyche debacle - the longer he stays the more we will be remade...yet again...in the image of his own limitations

The question next summer isn't whether or not he can take us further. The question is are we happy to pooter along in 12th or maybe a few places higher given a fair wind? Or are we going to be brave enough to try to get in somebody with a higher ceiling who might actually get the odd win at these places while driving us further up the league?

...and this,

I understand Evertonians are traumatised by the last decade. But we'll continue to be dismissed as an irrevelance by the media whilst questions about us being a big club are asked if we think Moyes is as good as it can be for Everton because we're collectively enduring PTSD.

Spot on

 

[willo30]

But these are his players. In most cases over the years, the players he sends out on to the pitch at these places are the ones he has brought in.

Seamus Coleman, for example. He has made a career out of being an honourable loser, all defiance and post-match rallying cries. The only conclusion I can draw is that the inferiority complex of the manager is shared by his players. They reflect him.

Moyes is a good manager. Competent. But he is hamstrung by his own limitations. The question next summer isn't whether or not he can take us further. The question is are we happy to pooter along in 12th or maybe a few places higher given a fair wind? Or are we going to be brave enough to try to get in somebody with a higher ceiling who might actually get the odd win at these places while driving us further up the league? I understand Evertonians are traumatised by the last decade. But we'll continue to be dismissed as an irrevelance by the media whilst questions about us being a big club are asked if we think Moyes is as good as it can be for Everton because we're collectively enduring PTSD.

We tried getting better in for 12 years since he left and we ended up much worse.
It's easier said than done.

 

[hallamblue]

This!
The Mk II version is hopefully a short term appointment.
Not withstanding the recent Kenwright / Moshiri / Lampard / Benitez / Dyche debacle - the longer he stays the more we will be remade...yet again...in the image of his own limitations

...and this,



Spot on

Everything depends on our recruitment. No manager worth their salt is touching us with our current squad. We have no pace at all, which is a vital component of a successful team these days. If you got a progressive modern coach they would probably keep 4 or 5 players in our current squad.

 

[Swartzy]

Last night was that shocking in here that I ended up going and chatting about Stats, and that says something

 

[degsy]

Everything depends on our recruitment. No manager worth their salt is touching us with our current squad. We have no pace at all, which is a vital component of a successful team these days. If you got a progressive modern coach they would probably keep 4 or 5 players in our current squad.

True.
It all depends what Moyes was brought in to do...and what say he has in recuitment

Was it to just stabilise *
*this I can live with
or
Stabilise and get a 'Culture' going **
** just what sort of 'Culture'
or
Stabilisation, 'Culture' AND commence the job of laying foundations ***
***

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

His record in those games speaks for itself doesnt it. I think man utd, arsenal, chelsea and liverpool the old big 4. He never won a single game away to those clubs in his whole time at Everton. He only beat Man City away while they were transitioning into a bigger club and Spurs were not ever a top team when he won there. Surely it would be sensible of him in these games to say to one of his coaches, look my record in these games is miserable, maybe you take the reigns for this fixture and see if you can have a positive effect on the players here.

Apart from Bobby's first season when we had Lukaku and Utd were in complete disarray, our last away win at Utd was 1992. For Liverpool our last away win in front of fans was 1999, Arsenal it was 1996. Chelsea it was 1995. Maybe it's an Everton problem rather than a Moyes problem? Those grounds are also pretty hard to win at even with a decent team. Arsenal, City and Liverpool do not regularly beat each other away from home.