2024/25 David Moyes

[Marius57]

That's always the issue when we try to play 'good' football, it doesn't come naturally to too many of them, they just aren't good enough to play first time passes and constantly find pockets of space, and so we ponderously pass the ball around for a bit before we either give it away or someone panics and hoofs it. It's one of the reasons I didn't lose it with Dyche as quickly as many people did, because I didn't necessarily disagree with the basic theory of how he had them playing like some did (although the execution of it clearly became a major issue).

Think it depends on the team we are playing against really. Branthwaite quite comfortable on the ball. Tarks, usually pretty dependable.

For me, Bournemouth cut off the avenues well. While I get playing JOB at RB, he isn’t a quick, mobile fullback that can receive and move the ball on. Then on the other side, you have Young who can only use his right foot so is limited to where he wants to receive the ball. Bournemouth pressed them knowing that.

Garner was the only midfielder showing for it and everyone else was quite static.

Saying that, while it was frustrating and we should have adapted sooner, can’t legislate for how much Tarks underhit that pass.

 

[Gilbert..]

A few comments from players suggesting we got it wrong in how we setup/tried to play. They're not wrong, they know we can't/shouldn't try and play out the back.



Hopefully it's lesson learned for Moyes.

We've played every style against them this season and lost all 3. Probably a lesson for Eddie Howe and Nuno aswell who they've wiped the floor with recently. And before that pep and arteta.
They're a team ive noticed who are not that shabby at adapting in game.
Just a better side. We're not the first to find that out.

 

[dixienormous]

Not adapting after the 25 min mark was poor, they just stood on branthwaite and let Tarks have it, who had one of his games where it looks like he’s just got in from a Saturday night session to play Sunday league.

The movement was atrocious from the midfield and forward also, allowing themselves to be marked - ndiaye missing really, doucure breaking down our momentum as usual.

Second half was much better but they were just protecting what they had - the young Spanish cb they have looks class (Huijsen) he won’t be there much longer I don’t think. Got him from Roma as well….

Hopefully Moyes took note, and we have Myko back in at lb as young was garbage, and alcaraz starts over doucure.

We can’t start so slowly in any game, but particularly the derby, or they will eat us alive.

He was on loan at Roma from Juve mate. But yeah, brilliant young player, the type we should be after....

 

[GrandOldTeam]

We've played every style against them this season and lost all 3. Probably a lesson for Eddie Howe and Nuno aswell who they've wiped the floor with recently. And before that pep and arteta.
They're a team ive noticed who are not that shabby at adapting in game.
Just a better side. We're not the first to find that out.

Most of the league are.

And you don't need to tell me Bournemouth are better than us, I was in the minority routinely making that point earlier in the season. And making points like this last month;

We were getting beat against Bournemouth and I'm thinking "these have 2 players who cost more than we spent on our match day squad".

... All the more reason then to not setup as we did. Even if it was a weakened Bournemouth team in the cup.

 

[Lanolin]

Think it depends on the team we are playing against really. Branthwaite quite comfortable on the ball. Tarks, usually pretty dependable.

For me, Bournemouth cut off the avenues well. While I get playing JOB at RB, he isn’t a quick, mobile fullback that can receive and move the ball on. Then on the other side, you have Young who can only use his right foot so is limited to where he wants to receive the ball. Bournemouth pressed them knowing that.

Garner was the only midfielder showing for it and everyone else was quite static.

Saying that, while it was frustrating and we should have adapted sooner, can’t legislate for how much Tarks underhit that pass.

I've said before, it's not that they're completely useless and can't play a five yard pass - they just aren't particularly technically proficient. Branthwaite and Tarkowski are both sort of 'fine' on the ball, neither of them are ball playing centre halves, O'Brien isn't a full back and Young is a 40 year old right footer playing left back. Doucoure and Beto both have awful first touches and neither of them passes the ball well, and Gana much as I love him is very much a mixed bag in terms of using the ball. Generally speaking the more we have of the ball the worse we look, obviously if teams sit off and let you do what you want (like Leicester did) that's fine, but when they get put under pressure they aren't good enough to just play around it. We desperately need better technical players in the squad, all over the pitch.

 

[Rita_Poon]

We've played every style against them this season and lost all 3. Probably a lesson for Eddie Howe and Nuno aswell who they've wiped the floor with recently. And before that pep and arteta.
They're a team ive noticed who are not that shabby at adapting in game.
Just a better side. We're not the first to find that out.

Who is their main ball player? Who does the majority of the work dictating the play? They've benefit from having rather a lot of pace, seems their forwards are signed specific to being able to run real fast first - everything else secondary. We set up wrong, not helped by injuries and forced replacements.
We're a Frankenstein monster of a squad, graverobbed parts from everywhere. Suppose we're lucky to have the few bits of quality we do and hope the squad is refined somewhat this summer. Also lucky some of the promoted sides are abjectly assembled teams that look to have taken the PL cash and not gamble - but accept relegation and fight it out for better next time round.

IIRC Yobo was the first or at least one of the first players he (Moyes) signed, he knew we needed pace at CB. We probably have a few essential pieces of a starting eleven in place, new owners, new ground, new sponsors, new faces. A load of legacy games over the summer - there'll be sides queuing for one last run out at Goodison.

 

[Gilbert..]

Most of the league are.

And you don't need to tell me Bournemouth are better than us, I was in the minority routinely making that point earlier in the season. And making points like this last month;



... All the more reason then to not setup as we did. Even if it was a weakened Bournemouth team in the cup.

You were also in the minority telling us on here that Dyche was keeping the wolves from the door and to be thankful.
You might want to step down off that high horse lone ranger.

 

[pfim]

A few comments from players suggesting we got it wrong in how we setup/tried to play. They're not wrong, they know we can't/shouldn't try and play out the back.



Hopefully it's lesson learned for Moyes.

We don't have the players to go direct. I don't think that's what changed in the second half. Bournemouth took their foot off the gas and we put on more effective players.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

You were also in the minority telling us on here that Dyche was keeping the wolves from the door and to be thankful.
You might want to step down off that high horse lone ranger.

You say "Bournemouth are just a better side" to excuse the defeat. (Wonder if I search your posts for 'Bournemouth' whether you give Dyche that same courtesy...).

I say, most of the league are better - hence the struggle.

Dyche did indeed keep the wolves from the door for most of his time here. Now Moyes has the same task for a few months until we can spend big. He's no mug, he knows it - hence the continual, unprompted praise on Dyche. Imagine if Moyes was told he's not allowed to spend this summer, and a point deduction was coming next season. Or unable to spend again the summer afterwards. How long until the wheels come off?

We're 16th, the bounce will go, and I'll be surprised if we finish above 15th. Why? Because most teams are better than us. Considering that, don't try and play out from the back as we did first half Vs Bournemouth.

 

[NathDogg]

He was on loan at Roma from Juve mate. But yeah, brilliant young player, the type we should be after....

Ta mate, he looks class every time I’ve seen him tbh. We absolutely need to be in that kind of market.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

We don't have the players to go direct. I don't think that's what changed in the second half. Bournemouth took their foot off the gas and we put on more effective players.

We certainly don't have the players to do this either;

Was poor tactic to try and play out like that considering Bournemouth’s press

Yeah, Bournemouth did factor in a 2-0 lead and adjust but as Branthwaite and others have said, we got it wrong in how we setup.

 

[Lanolin]

We don't have the players to go direct. I don't think that's what changed in the second half. Bournemouth took their foot off the gas and we put on more effective players.

Going direct doesn't have to mean going full Dyche and launching it back to front, it just means getting the ball forward quicker. That's what we need to do in most games, the more we have of the ball the more problems we cause for ourselves, and we do have the players to do it (to an extent at least).

 

[dixienormous]

Ta mate, he looks class every time I’ve seen him tbh. We absolutely need to be in that kind of market.

Absolutely. Seen him play once or twice but in no way thought he'd adapt to the prem in the way he has. Also the lad next to him, Zabarnyi. Thought he was sh*te when I first noticed him but goes to show when you click with another decent centre back next to you, it just works. Both only kids too. The future's bright if they can keep them and Kerkez...

 

[pfim]

Going direct doesn't have to mean going full Dyche and launching it back to front, it just means getting the ball forward quicker. That's what we need to do in most games, the more we have of the ball the more problems we cause for ourselves, and we do have the players to do it (to an extent at least).

All I saw Saturday was aimless passes towards Beto or Doucoure. Even if it is to them, they can't control it. I'm not talking about hoofball, these two guys can't compete against better midfields and centerbacks.

Looking back at the second goal, I don't think Pickford did Tarkowski any favors. The team didn't look set or aware that play was going to re-start.

 

[Gilbert..]

You say "Bournemouth are just a better side" to excuse the defeat. (Wonder if I search your posts for 'Bournemouth' whether you give Dyche that same courtesy...).

I say, most of the league are better - hence the struggle.

Dyche did indeed keep the wolves from the door for most of his time here. Now Moyes has the same task for a few months until we can spend big. He's no mug, he knows it - hence the continual, unprompted praise on Dyche. Imagine if Moyes was told he's not allowed to spend this summer, and a point deduction was coming next season. Or unable to spend again the summer afterwards. How long until the wheels come off?

We're 16th, the bounce will go, and I'll be surprised if we finish above 15th. Why? Because most teams are better than us. Considering that, don't try and play out from the back as we did first half Vs Bournemouth.

Interesting you mention that game. You can check posts(notice you throw that out a lot)
Dyche had them beat at Goodison. A mixture of iraola and dyche's limiitations caused that defeat. Iraola just threw caution to the wind and chucked on half a team so im not gona say it was genius. Dyche however stood there picking his nose as everyone could see what was coming.
You can check posts. Ive stated a few times he should have cleared his desk that day. His Game plan was ok from kick off. Soon as in game plan needed changing he was clueless. To top it off he blamed everyone but himself for that game.