Where's the Money goes - Elstone reply to fans taken from EFC OS

[The Equaliser]

Fair play to the massive weapon.

Hes tried to be honest and explained things, he should get the credit for that at least.

Agreed, but there'e no doubt that BK has put him up to this in response to last Saturday's events. The quote "almost all our fans respect there's a right way to go about getting the answers they want" gives it away.

 

[roydo]

The difference between those clubs with the individual willing to throw some money in and Everton is merely the source of the funding.

These owners; Coates, Lerner even Ellis Short aren't doing this for philanthropic reasons. Each of those parties have loaned the money to the club. Should they walk away or be forced into withdrawing this funding it will effectively cripple to club in question. We spent last summer arguing about Villa's precarious financial model so that's well discussed here. Add QPR to the mix now as well - if they go down they are in huge trouble. Fernandes' and sourced borrowing and this has been gambled (poorly in my opinion) on a clutch of highly paid moderate players. £100k+ per week salaries? Contracted into a Championship season? Bad news.

Agree entirely that we are advanced in the process given that our property assets have been sold on. It's evident that we're ahead of the curve. However, even in our situation we can maintain status quo with the on sale of playing assets.

I don't see anything but a HUGE investment doing much other than papering the cracks. That is my problem., surely you can't disagree that football itself is teetering on the edge of a huge meltdown.

I agree with you milks; I have been banging on about this for ages. Other than Man City, who it could be argued the owners are using the club to actually promote their own country rather than an expected return on their investment, and Chelsea, where, frankly, it is a tax dodge for Abramovich, the rest are completely compromised as a business. (not Arsenal though).

One day soon, these owners will get together with like minded owners of Barca, RM, Bayern etc etc, and form their own euro league, financed by Sky, of course, and at a stroke, the single most important source of income to those left behind, will vanish.

 

[milks]

And he can only sell the players that people wish to buy, hence why our 2 most creative players where sold.

I bet if Arsenal offered 10m for Neville he would have been sold.

Christ yes. Agree entirely.
Way too many people seem to think that Moyes can merely state a player is available and he'll have a flood of calls.

 

[davek]

The difference between those clubs with the individual willing to throw some money in and Everton is merely the source of the funding.

These owners; Coates, Lerner even Ellis Short aren't doing this for philanthropic reasons. Each of those parties have loaned the money to the club. Should they walk away or be forced into withdrawing this funding it will effectively cripple to club in question. We spent last summer arguing about Villa's precarious financial model so that's well discussed here. Add QPR to the mix now as well - if they go down they are in huge trouble. Fernandes' and sourced borrowing and this has been gambled (poorly in my opinion) on a clutch of highly paid moderate players. £100k+ per week salaries? Contracted into a Championship season? Bad news.

Agree entirely that we are advanced in the process given that our property assets have been sold on. It's evident that we're ahead of the curve. However, even in our situation we can maintain status quo with the on sale of playing assets.

I don't see anything but a HUGE investment doing much other than papering the cracks. That is my problem., surely you can't disagree that football itself is teetering on the edge of a huge meltdown.

You dont know that. It's pure supposition on your part. Even in the case of Lerner and Villa, there's no cut and run there. It's a managed drawing in of horns after a big splurge. We dont know that Lerner wont invest again in other circumstances. He certainly hasn't left them in administration.

We need to just take those clubs on what's happening now and leave the crystal ball one side. They could be left high and dry, they might not be. What we know for sure is that Everton have downsized and still remain financially vulnerable. Those other clubs still have a shot, we have none at all without a major event happening.

 

[milks]

I agree with you milks; I have been banging on about this for ages. Other than Man City, who it could be argued the owners are using the club to actually promote their own country rather than an expected return on their investment, and Chelsea, where, frankly, it is a tax dodge for Abramovich, the rest are completely compromised as a business. (not Arsenal though).

One day soon, these owners will get together with like minded owners of Barca, RM, Bayern etc etc, and form their own euro league, financed by Sky, of course, and at a stroke, the single most important source of income to those left behind, will vanish.

I'd love for that to happen. They can all sod off and screw each other over independently of us less fortunate souls.

OR, I'd like some regulations as to ownership similar to the German statute that only Germans can own German clubs; OR, I'd like a salary cap implemented; OR, I'd like UEFA to actually grow some and follow through on their convictions by actually implementing their financial fair play regulations.

 

[The Equaliser]

There's nothing in this to suggest that the plan of action to stay afloat by continuing to sell our best young players will change. If anything, it re-enforces it.

 

[milks]

You dont know that. It's pure supposition on your part. Even in the case of Lerner and Villa, there's no cut and run there. It's a managed drawing in of horns after a big splurge. We dont know that Lerner wont invest again in other circumstances. He certainly hasn't left them in administration.

We need to just take those clubs on what's happening now and leave the crystal ball one side. They could be left high and dry, they might not be. What we know for sure is that Everton have downsized and still remain financially vulnerable. Those other clubs still have a shot, we have none at all without a major event happening.

That's why I said we're ahead of the curve Dave.

It's not idle speculation either. Why would these businessmen work their lives to build up huge personal finances only to give it away to a football club?

That said, I've just discovered Steve Morgan wrote a sizeable chunk of debt owed by Wolves off. I suppose that's the only viable avenue left to Everton right now...but with a relatively skint Bill in the chair I can't see it.

 

[Matt Damon]

I agree with you milks; I have been banging on about this for ages. Other than Man City, who it could be argued the owners are using the club to actually promote their own country rather than an expected return on their investment, and Chelsea, where, frankly, it is a tax dodge for Abramovich, the rest are completely compromised as a business. (not Arsenal though).

One day soon, these owners will get together with like minded owners of Barca, RM, Bayern etc etc, and form their own euro league, financed by Sky, of course, and at a stroke, the single most important source of income to those left behind, will vanish.

EU policy (and UK government policy) is to not allow that to happen. To preserve the integrity of the game they're pushing only for collective bargaining rights will be preserved, even in the face of EJC pushing to break the monopoly of certain tv companies to have those rights.

So basically you've got one pushing to preserve the value of rights and one to decrease the value - so what will result inevitably is no further large TV rights increases to the clubs.

And potentially more competition meaning we'll have access to them for cheaper and more selection.


SPAIN will be forced back into collective bargaining in the next few years IMHO

 

[roydo]

Football has always been on the edge of the cliff.

Now and again teams fall off it, but theres so much money floating around that it will never fall off completely.

And whos to say QPR didnt put Relagtion clause in contracts, they would have been utter fools if not and I cant see why they wouldnt,

Admire your opinion on how agents might represent their clients. Leeds, Bradford, Forest, Sheffield x 2, Ipswich, Coventry, Leicester, Portsmouth, (repeat till fade). They ARE fools. All these calling for someone to step forward and "invest" in us are totally deluded. All of the above thought they could actually make money out of owning a football club; Ha! It will not happen unless a zqullionaire pitches up, with no regard for actually getting a return on their cash.

Pisses me right off, but we are we are, for what ever reason, and we need to be stable, well run, and not reliant on some joker who could really cause some damage. Michael Knighton anyone? Nearly happened at Man U.

 

[sotnas]

There's nothing in this to suggest that the plan of action to stay afloat by continuing to sell our best young players will change. If anything, it re-enforces it.

I believe that a substantial part of our expenditure comes from interest on the loans made.

How much do we owe the banks?

Will the money from the kids be enough to cover it? If so, then we have 19M more, every season, to allocate or to save. Plus we have the ability to go to the bank again, on new terms.

On the footballing side of the matter, I question this: do Rodwell and Barkley represent invaluable members of our first team? Are they the heart and soul of the team?

I'm not asking if they are good players and both for a bright future. I'm asking if we can't live without them right now.

As much as I could be sorry for letting them go, the club must stay afloat. The club must reinvent itself for the future.

And we, the supporters can take that to our hands. The united fans tried to buy the club from the Glazers. Do we, proud Evertonians, have the chance to mobilize means to do such a stunt?

 

[Goat]

That's why I said we're ahead of the curve Dave.

It's not idle speculation either. Why would these businessmen work their lives to build up huge personal finances only to give it away to a football club?

That said, I've just discovered Steve Morgan wrote a sizeable chunk of debt owed by Wolves off. I suppose that's the only viable avenue left to Everton right now...but with a relatively skint Bill in the chair I can't see it.

And this is the main problem.

Some people constantly say we have 3 major Shareholders.

Now whilst Kenwrong and Woods probably dont have 50m between them, the other Earltvvatface, has, reportly, over 100m, which begs the question, why are we paying interest on Loans, when a major shareholder has the means to wipe all our debt and save us countless Millions a Year.

 

[milks]

And this is the main problem.

Some people constantly say we have 3 major Shareholders.

Now whilst Kenwrong and Woods probably dont have 50m between them, the other Earltvvatface, has, reportly, over 100m, which begs the question, why are we paying interest on Loans, when a major shareholder has the means to wipe all our debt and save us countless Millions a Year.

Because Earl is not remotely interested in football and has admitted as such.
He was a quick fix to a problem which has hugely backfired on Kenwright.

He wants his money back. That's our problem. I personally think that if the opportunity presented itself Kenwright might actually write some of his claim off to broker a deal, provided it doesn't personally cripple him.

 

[davek]

There's nothing in this to suggest that the plan of action to stay afloat by continuing to sell our best young players will change. If anything, it re-enforces it.

A more hard-faced and insulting piece of drivel you'd be hard pressed to find.

Elstone says a few times there how *honest* and *forthright* he's being with everyone - wanting a pat on the back for his efforts (and getting it off some people!).

What he's saying - and as you state - is that he and his paymasters cant run the club as a competitive concern and so we're living a hand to mouth existence by spending all the money get their hands on and flogging anything that isn't nailed down.

Impressive. "We spend money on insurance policies, travel expenses and on...erm...other stuff"

<Clap, clap, clap.>

Imagine the fanfare of trumpets there'd be if these useless [Poor language removed] ever attracted significant investment or turned a big profit for the manager to spend?

 

[kenada_blue]

The difference between those clubs with the individual willing to throw some money in and Everton is merely the source of the funding.

These owners; Coates, Lerner even Ellis Short aren't doing this for philanthropic reasons. Each of those parties have loaned the money to the club. Should they walk away or be forced into withdrawing this funding it will effectively cripple to club in question. We spent last summer arguing about Villa's precarious financial model so that's well discussed here. Add QPR to the mix now as well - if they go down they are in huge trouble. Fernandes' and sourced borrowing and this has been gambled (poorly in my opinion) on a clutch of highly paid moderate players. £100k+ per week salaries? Contracted into a Championship season? Bad news.

Agree entirely that we are advanced in the process given that our property assets have been sold on. It's evident that we're ahead of the curve. However, even in our situation we can maintain status quo with the on sale of playing assets.

I don't see anything but a HUGE investment doing much other than papering the cracks. That is my problem., surely you can't disagree that football itself is teetering on the edge of a huge meltdown.

But they will not just pull the plug and walk at Villa or QPR. They are very good businessmen with successful businesses who will sell on to someone able to take the reigns.

There'll be a queue of people wanting to buy QPR nowdays. And Villa surprisingly make a fair bit of money in the premiership.

 

[Matt Damon]

But they will not just pull the plug and walk at Villa or QPR. They are very good businessmen with successful businesses who will sell on to someone able to take the reigns.

There'll be a queue of people wanting to buy QPR nowdays. And Villa surprisingly make a fair bit of money in the premiership.

That is complete nonsense. Villa have made LOSES ever since Lerner took over.

circa £35 million LOSES in 2010. Will be in the region of £10m-£20m LOSES for 2011.

Don't push it lid.