Persistence of Martinez - Time to change.

[deipnosophist]

His goals are from penalties. Can you honestly say watching him over the past 18 months that hes a patch on the baines of 2 years ago.

Hes been very poor in my eyes but he can do no wrong in some eyes and you arent allowed to say it how it is

I think Baines has been very poor. So has Coleman, Barry, Jagielka , Distin and Howard

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

First post here lads so take it easy, does anyone think that Martinez is trying to use the tactics he uses in Europe in prem games?

 

[Khalekan]

I have lost faith in him i see the man who took wigan down easily and not the man from last season.
The starting line up and tactics were wrong again today and to think we were playing a side who had lost 5 on the spin and had a lot of players out

Bobby said before the match that he looked at at Southampton and "didn't see a team which had lost five games in a tie but a team which had won X amount this season".

This is football by numbers again.

A failure....or an unwillingness....to look at the opposition and say ""this lot are not only out of firm they have half their team missing".

Too much respect shown to a team which was there for the taking.

This showed in the team selection.

We didn't need two defensive midfield players against a depleted a Saints today.

Besic and Barkley should have been left where they played on Monday night.

 

[cronullasharks]

Martinez said: “The most disappointing thing was the way we defended our box. We were a little bit soft and were undone by three balls that went into the six-yard box.

“We are to blame for the defeat because we didn’t defend any simple ball into the box well. Our record shows that we are normally a lot better in that respect and that is where we lost the game.

“The second half we started with a good mentality and we had Southampton where we wanted them. All they wanted to do was work on the counter-attack.

“But it was disappointing to concede three goals the way we did. Clearly it was a day when nothing went in our favour because even when we created opportunities we never hit the back of the net. The difference between the two sides was in the boxes.”

Martinez also explained why he did not make any substitutions during the game.

He added: “I did feel that the team was the right one to get back into the game. I wanted the players to show the right intention to get back into the game.

“I never felt that we were outplayed - it was a matter of the way we defended our 18-yard box rather than any tactical aspect.”

Stubborn and he spoke a lot of bull. It doesn't seem he thinks the tactics and selection are a problem.

Maybe we should get a few balls into the 6 yard box then as well, might actually see some goals that way.

I'm not going to jump on the "Martinez out" bandwagon yet but I think a few players should have been moved on in the off season for the squad as a whole to progress. And some players have no real competition for their spots so even if out of form they have to be persisted with because the chances are that their replacements will be worse.

So i'm hoping some of the older or more injury prone players get moved on in the summer and replaced with players that are going to actually push for first team selection.

 

[Typhoo Toffee]

Lets drop our best striker for someone who everyone had written off 1 month ago. Lukaku scores if he gets service which he hasn't, in general, this season.

I know it was only an U21 match but, against Sunderland, Kone looked more than ready to step in and I'm disappointed he hasn't yet.

 

[Toffeelover]

What has been RMs comments from the Saints game? I have not seen any.

 

[Space Cowboy]

I want Martinez to just come out and say we've been sh*te and to stop saying how 'exceptional' we were in certain areas. Give the players some pressure and see how they deal with it. I think he's too respected for any of our players to spit their dummies out, and they can hardly argue with that assessment after a 3-0 defeat. He needs some Van Gaal sass.

 

[royalblue66]

Just watched MOTD, the pundits wre not very complimentary towards Martinez. Shearer said Matrinez has no plan B,and asked what's wrong with a long ball upto Lakaku now and again,he said Lakaku is big enough and strong enough to deal with it, but I just can't see Martinez changing.even tho everyone has us Sussed worrying times indeed..

 

[matty1878]

I know we are a good side we just aren't playing like one with are good players and every other team is

 

[Mistertonblue]

Clearly teams have mastered our fabled 4-2-3-1 formation so now is the time to see how good a tactician Martinez really is.

Persisting with the 4-2-3-1 isn't working at present and he's putting unsuited players in positions to match the formation.

I'd like him to try something different like a 4-4-2 (diamond midfield)

Howard

Coleman Stones Jagielka Baines
Barry
Barkley Besic
Naismith
Kone Lukaku

I'd have McCarthy over Besic if he's fit.

 

[Toffeelover]

I would drop Barry out of that team.

 

[Mistertonblue]

Oh and another thing Martinez needs to sort out our set pieces immediately.

We must be the worst team in the league at set pieces. Our free kicks rarely beat the wall and our corners - Garbutt aside - are truly atrocious and far too often we look clueless with a free kick and end up passing back to Howard.

I read an interview with Martinez last season where he stated something along the lines of how he doesn't appreciate corners and fails to practice them as statistically the goals/corners ratio is very low.

I feel that is an incredibly naïve and ill thought attitude and I'd be amazed if big Dunc doesn't have something strong to say about that.

 

[mglennon]

I think Baines has been very poor. So has Coleman, Barry, Jagielka , Distin and Howard

I think Baines, although a great servant has been on the decline since that great season he had 2 yrs ago.

Granted he still assists , but look at the difference in ground covered in attacking areas compared to Southampton full backs, its chalk and cheese.

At this level you need athletic full backs, garbutt for me, Baines CM possibly

 

[Toffeelover]

I think Baines, although a great servant has been on the decline since that great season he had 2 yrs ago.

Granted he still assists , but look at the difference in ground covered in attacking areas compared to Southampton full backs, its chalk and cheese.

At this level you need athletic full backs, garbutt for me, Baines CM possibly

Rather think Baines has suffered quite a hangover from that injury a bit back. Certainly he is not popping up scoring goals I think this is down to team lineup who plays in front of him these days. This all rests at RM's door.

 

[Haston]

I've doubted his team, subs etc before but yesterday was the first time I've became really disillusioned with Martinez. My problem with him is that he continues to make the same mistakes! He is incapable of changing it when things aren't going our way. I said at half time yesterday that any decent manager would be changing it up there and then, the fact that he took 85 mins to make a change, after we had gone 2-0 and 3-0 down, is very worrying! I don't think he is going to change his formation unfortunately, he cannot continue to put players out of position though! Yesterday was just awful, he has Barkley and Naismith out wide and etoo in the position that either of those 2 should be occupying! So that's the 3 attackers behind lukaku all out of position! I don't understand his thinking at all! I think we have enough options in the correct positions:

Striker - Lukaku is still young and inconsistent so he should be rotating with etoo and also we have Kone as an option now!

No.10 role - Barkley or Naismith, easy! Osman is an option too if neither are available

Wingers - ok that's a problem position especially with mirallas out, but McGeady and Pienaar are both fit and available! Naismith can occupy this position in emergencies only but Barkley should not under any circumstances be out wide! Oviedo also can be used when fit. Needs investment in January

Midfielders - McCarthy and Besic easy! While McCarthy is out Barkley should be in there, Barry is an option but he should be used sparingly now IMO. Gibson when he's fit is an option, osman can be used there too in emergencies

Defenders - jags and stones, distin and Alcaraz as backup

Full backs - Baines and Coleman, Oviedo, Garbutt and browning are options, hibbert only in emergencies

GK - Howard, needs competition, investment in January

No doubt I've probs forgot someone but my point is that we have enough options not to be shoehorning players out of position!