Why Leicester and not Everton?

[arbok]

Bought Siggurdson doh

They really screwed over Moshiri with that one.He was expensive at 25m and 50m is just wild. He has some good qualities but he's not a guy the top 6 want as their number 10. That's the difference between Daniel Levy and Moshiri, Levy sticks to his price and Moshiri doesn't.

 

[Seathestars]

Almost every post has said they have a good Manager, I agree.
But what does their good Manager do, he takes full advantage of their strength, no surprise almost every post has mentioned their 25 goal a season striker too.
Our strength for me is our pace up front but we don't take advantage. In fact we nullify it, slow build up, possession football. We actually dig our own grave.

There is the mental attitude too mind you. Every Leicester player knows their job, some of ours look like the new kid in school, never quite sure where they fit.
If players know their job then its a fair bet they will improve at it, gain confidence and start to believe in the manager.

This is just the quick on the pitch solution, our whole club stinks at the moment and needs sorting.

 

[DickRitchie214]

I do feel Leicester have fell into a little purple patch, like we had 10-years ago, with cheap, but smart signings like Tielemans, Maddison, Evans and Soyuncu. But they've had players like Barnes and Chilwell come through. I'm not saying Leicester are going to win the league, but look how they approach things, and look how we approach things. When i mentioned Cast Offs before... Maddison, Soyuncu, Ndidi, Praet and Riccardo are all players who were stars for their team, who Leicester took. Digne, Gomes, Mina, Walcott, Schneiderlin and Iwobi? By contrast...

Your first 2 paragraphs were spot on, but this one...not so much.

Maddison came from Norwich City
Soyuncu came from Freiburg
Ndidi came from Genk
Praet came from Genk
Ricardo came from Porto

Of course they were stars. By comparison, or contrast as you said:

Digne came from Barcelona
Gomes came from Barcelona
Mina came from Barcelona
Walcott came from Arsenal
(who cares where Morgan came from)
Iwobi came from Arsenal

Do you see what I'm saying? None of the 5 great Leicester finds would play at those big clubs either, certainly not be stars. And the 5 Everton players would have been stars at lesser clubs too. If you want to argue quality of scouting, or talent evaluation, or something like that, fine, but it's an entirely different discussion.

Not sure why you would crap on Digne, Gomes, Mina, or Iwobi anyway...

 

[arbok]

They built their team around Vardy, and built their team to work to his strengths, pace, directness, counter-attacking. We've just kind of made a Frankenstein of a team, a bit like United, in the sense that we've built with the best players available, but will they compliment each other? Are they actually just cast offs?

We've signed players like Richarlison, Bernard, Iwobi and Walcott, who rely on their pace, but their creativity is Sigurdsson who is slow, uninispiring and holds us back. What we need to do is sign a proper striker and build round him.

I do feel Leicester have fell into a little purple patch, like we had 10-years ago, with cheap, but smart signings like Tielemans, Maddison, Evans and Soyuncu. But they've had players like Barnes and Chilwell come through. I'm not saying Leicester are going to win the league, but look how they approach things, and look how we approach things. When i mentioned Cast Offs before... Maddison, Soyuncu, Ndidi, Praet and Riccardo are all players who were stars for their team, who Leicester took. Digne, Gomes, Mina, Walcott, Schneiderlin and Iwobi? By contrast...

Yep I agree with all of this.

And its probably a good time to pull back the iron curtain and talk about the ugly side of football. Its a business, and Moshiri is a new fish in a big pond. The only two real ways to survive is money like Abramovich or Sheikh Mansour where you just go and buy the best, or putting in time and learning from your mistakes like many existing owners. We've seen overseas ownerships come in thinking money will fix all the issues, but inevitably it ends up costing more than they realise, guys like Venkys from Blackburn, Vincent Tan at Cardiff, Tony Fernandes at QPR. I know the type of person like Tan and Fernandes, im working in Malaysia right now, these guys have 0 football knowledge, but they're business men and business men always think that money fixes problems. It doesn't in football (unless you're Abramovich), a 50m mistake is not insignificant (a lesson Moshiri is learning the hard way), because at some point it doesn't balance the accounts. Moshiri is taking the team exactly how those other guys I listed, because he's a new fish. I think Marcel Brands has some good qualities, but I worry that neither he or Marco Silva have enough local knowledge.

The guys that Everton have bought are exactly as you say, either whatever is 'available' on the market or someone pushed to us by an agent because of ulterior motives and Everton are buying because they can't get players targeted for Top 6. Those guys don't want to go to Everton, they'd rather go to a Wolves or Watford where they have a better shot of being a star.

 

[arbok]

Your first 2 paragraphs were spot on, but this one...not so much.

Maddison came from Norwich City
Soyuncu came from Freiburg
Ndidi came from Genk
Praet came from Genk
Ricardo came from Porto

Of course they were stars. By comparison, or contrast as you said:

Digne came from Barcelona
Gomes came from Barcelona
Mina came from Barcelona
Walcott came from Arsenal
(who cares where Morgan came from)
Iwobi came from Arsenal

Do you see what I'm saying? None of the 5 great Leicester finds would play at those big clubs either, certainly not be stars. And the 5 Everton players would have been stars at lesser clubs too. If you want to argue quality of scouting, or talent evaluation, or something like that, fine, but it's an entirely different discussion.

Not sure why you would crap on Digne, Gomes, Mina, or Iwobi anyway...

I think one thing I got from that list of players is that while Digne, Gomes have been pretty good,and Walcott can have a good day here or there, and Iwobi could possibly be good, that doesn't feel like a good team on paper, like the ceiling for that team isn't very high? A top 6 team at the most, I doubt it would be a top 4 team. I guess Everton can continue to build on from these players and continually get better. But they've been buying these type of players for a good few years now.

If Moshiri has tons of money, why is he buying B-Team players? Either the players he wants to buy won't come, or this is all he could buy. Which says his recruitment isn't as deep as Leicesters or he doesn't have the money like an Abramovich to splash around. Also some of the purchases like Sigurdsson or Richarlison have been overpays, which says a lot about who is willing to come and how savvy Moshiri has been with his money.

 

[barneygumble]

Your first 2 paragraphs were spot on, but this one...not so much.

Maddison came from Norwich City
Soyuncu came from Freiburg
Ndidi came from Genk
Praet came from Genk
Ricardo came from Porto

Of course they were stars. By comparison, or contrast as you said:

Digne came from Barcelona
Gomes came from Barcelona
Mina came from Barcelona
Walcott came from Arsenal
(who cares where Morgan came from)
Iwobi came from Arsenal

Do you see what I'm saying? None of the 5 great Leicester finds would play at those big clubs either, certainly not be stars. And the 5 Everton players would have been stars at lesser clubs too. If you want to argue quality of scouting, or talent evaluation, or something like that, fine, but it's an entirely different discussion.

Not sure why you would crap on Digne, Gomes, Mina, or Iwobi anyway...

For what its worth i'm not "crapping" on any of them. But what I am doing is just stating where they've came from.
Leicester are scouring Europe for upcoming young talent who are keen to make a name for themselves. I'm not saying cast offs are bad, far from it. But young lads off the continent, for relatively cheap prices, keen to make an impression is clearly the model we needed to follow.

For what it's worth, Digne's been a revelation, can't say the same for Schneiderlin can we?

 

[DickRitchie214]

I think one thing I got from that list of players is that while Digne, Gomes have been pretty good,and Walcott can have a good day here or there, and Iwobi could possibly be good, that doesn't feel like a good team on paper, like the ceiling for that team isn't very high? A top 6 team at the most, I doubt it would be a top 4 team. I guess Everton can continue to build on from these players and continually get better. But they've been buying these type of players for a good few years now.

If Moshiri has tons of money, why is he buying B-Team players? Either the players he wants to buy won't come, or this is all he could buy. Which says his recruitment isn't as deep as Leicesters or he doesn't have the money like an Abramovich to splash around. Also some of the purchases like Sigurdsson or Richarlison have been overpays, which says a lot about who is willing to come and how savvy Moshiri has been with his money.

Well that's a different argument that comes down to talent evaluation like I mentioned. I'd hardly call them B players and they're not better than ours at an individual level.

But they are being utilized better and certainly playing better as a team. So if you want to say LC has built a more cohesive team, I won't argue that. Keep in mind that so many of the players we have were acquired under different leadership, creating this Frankenstein (loved that description) hodge-podge we have now. Moshiri doesn't buy anyone; he hired people who do.

If LC hadn't gotten off to this start this wouldn't even be open for debate. Most of the LC guys mentioned joined them before the start of last season, when LC finished below us in 9th.

I'm not disputing they've made some shrewd signings, far from it. But saying their signings are better than ours because they were stars at lesser clubs is disingenuous at best.

 

[DickRitchie214]

For what its worth i'm not "crapping" on any of them. But what I am doing is just stating where they've came from.
Leicester are scouring Europe for upcoming young talent who are keen to make a name for themselves. I'm not saying cast offs are bad, far from it. But young lads off the continent, for relatively cheap prices, keen to make an impression is clearly the model we needed to follow.

For what it's worth, Digne's been a revelation, can't say the same for Schneiderlin can we?

Ignore Morgan, Walcott and Gylfi. Previous regime and would never ever have been purchased by Brands. Not sure how you can say Richarlison was a bad buy and the jury is truly out on the others, but Digne, Gomes, Kean, Sidibe, Gbamin, Mina are all young players from the continent, and to me, represent exactly what Brands/we're trying to build.

We're not as bad as we've been playing, and I don't think LC is as good as they've been playing. It's a poor comparison. All my opinion of course.

The better comparison, I'm sure covered in this thread, is Rodgers vs Silva.

 

[barneygumble]

Ignore Morgan, Walcott and Gylfi. Previous regime and would never ever have been purchased by Brands. Not sure how you can say Richarlison was a bad buy and the jury is truly out on the others, but Digne, Gomes, Kean, Sidibe, Gbamin, Mina are all young players from the continent, and to me, represent exactly what Brands/we're trying to build.

We're not as bad as we've been playing, and I don't think LC is as good as they've been playing. It's a poor comparison. All my opinion of course.

The better comparison, I'm sure covered in this thread, is Rodgers vs Silva.

I haven’t said Richarlison is a bad buy, read back. I also didn’t say Digne or Gomes were.

my point is, Leicester have identified what they needed against what they have. They’ve then made the changes to ensure they’ve got those players in to improve them.

even last year under Puel they were dangerous... see draw at Anfield.

my point I’m trying to make is that Leicester’s model is the model we should be trying to follow. My concern with signing lots of players who couldn’t make the step up regardless of the team, is that how does their confidence go? Do they have the fight?

I think you’re right, and Leicester are probably over achieving and us vice versa, but it’s hard to watch them play the way I want us to play.

as for Rodgers, he knows how to play that style of football, that’s it. He doesn’t have a plan B, just seems Silva doesn’t have a plan A, at present.

 

[Tipp blue]

because we've hired chancers and it's blew up in our faces and now we're paying the consequences.

Imagine the fume if we had hired Rodgers. We have hired crap managers our best manager since Moyes has been Fat Sam by a long way. Look at the managers that Leicester have had compared to us, Raneri (not arsed with spelling) did well with Chelsea almost won the league, Rogers did well with Liverpool almost won the league where as we have had Koeman who was a mid table manager and both Silva and Martinez both got relegated before we hired them. Lecister are doing well because they hire managers who have done well, we are doing poorly because we have hired managers who have done poorly. Added to this you also need an owner who will back the manager which is why Rafael who's a good manager didn't do well at Newcastle. Leicester have a good owner who hires good managers, we have a reasonably good owner who could be a very good owner if he could get it into his head that hiring managers who have achieved next to nothing will not move a team forward.

 

[BHvisitor]

See, here’s the thing.

If someone had posted on here in February that we should fire Silva and fetch in Rodgers the Super Bloo Brigade would have been down on him like a ton of bricks,

The same every time someone suggests Rafael.

Now, I don’t know if those two guys are so steeped in the Cult that they would consider coming here.

But if they would, it would be nuts to discount them on the grounds they managed the RS.

I do realise that. Which would put Rafael or BR under added pressure as your manager. A short run of bad results, and the anti all things LFC element would be on them like a flash. Without that history, LCFC fans accepted BR with open arms.

 

[Charro]

We finished above them last season ffs.

 

[Tipp blue]

Your first 2 paragraphs were spot on, but this one...not so much.

Maddison came from Norwich City
Soyuncu came from Freiburg
Ndidi came from Genk
Praet came from Genk
Ricardo came from Porto

Of course they were stars. By comparison, or contrast as you said:

Digne came from Barcelona
Gomes came from Barcelona
Mina came from Barcelona
Walcott came from Arsenal
(who cares where Morgan came from)
Iwobi came from Arsenal

Do you see what I'm saying? None of the 5 great Leicester finds would play at those big clubs either, certainly not be stars. And the 5 Everton players would have been stars at lesser clubs too. If you want to argue quality of scouting, or talent evaluation, or something like that, fine, but it's an entirely different discussion.

Not sure why you would crap on Digne, Gomes, Mina, or Iwobi anyway...

Also if we were signing the players that Leicester were signing. ie the stars from lesser clubs our fans would not be happy.

 

[Gilbert..]

Imagine the fume if we had hired Rodgers. We have hired crap managers our best manager since Moyes has been Fat Sam by a long way. Look at the managers that Leicester have had compared to us, Raneri (not arsed with spelling) did well with Chelsea almost won the league, Rogers did well with Liverpool almost won the league where as we have had Koeman who was a mid table manager and both Silva and Martinez both got relegated before we hired them. Lecister are doing well because they hire managers who have done well, we are doing poorly because we have hired managers who have done poorly. Added to this you also need an owner who will back the manager which is why Rafael who's a good manager didn't do well at Newcastle. Leicester have a good owner who hires good managers, we have a reasonably good owner who could be a very good owner if he could get it into his head that hiring managers who have achieved next to nothing will not move a team forward.

If any Everton fan fumed at us taking Rodgers they should and would be told to shut up for being an ignorant backward thinking idiot.

 

[Shagpile]

I think what you guys need to remember is that the Leicester owners took a good few seasons to learn their trade.

As soon as they took over we got relegated to league one. Then spent a bit of time in the championship doing things like having Sven Goran Erikson and buying players like Beckford and other players with big reputations but not necessarily up for the Leicester fight or suitable for the championship as it was back then.

It took years for our owners to figure things out and an awful lot of money too. Our success came together when we got the trio of Nigel Pearson, Craig Shakespeare and Steve Walsh.

We went back to basics, got rid of the big egos and bought players with a point to prove.

Buying players that have a point to prove has been the bedrock of our success ever since. Whereas Everton seem to have bought players that have (in their mind) already made it Leicester buy players hoping to make it.

That desire and will to improve and develop is what we're all about.